CHRIS NEWCOMB: Welcome to the Peer Into Recovery Podcast, a podcast with the focus on the profession of peer support. For more information about how to subscribe, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org. Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Peer Into Recovery Podcast. My name is Chris Newcomb. I’m your host. And today we have a great guest. Her name is Sarah McFarland. And Sarah is the founder of the Learning and Integrating New Knowledge and Skills Center, Inc., which is LINKS, L-I-N-K-S. It’s a nonprofit organization that provides support services to families caring for children diagnosed with mental illness.

Sarah uses her lived experience to encourage individuals from diverse backgrounds to move from hopelessness to wholeness. She’s a certified trauma professional, a certified personal medication coach, also a registered peer recovery specialist and resilience practitioner. Her professional experience includes as a CASA volunteer, an advocate for sexual trauma services and domestic violence prevention. She devotes much of her time to advocate for survivors of childhood abuse and neglect. Sarah is an active member, advocate and facilitator and former board member of NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. Sarah, how are you doing today?

SARAH MCFARLAND: I am doing wonderful, Chris, and so glad to be here. Thanks for the invite.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You’re absolutely welcome. I’m glad you came on. For those of you listening, Sarah and I go back a couple of years. We met at the 72-hour DBHDS training, back in I think it was 2016, is that right?

SARAH MCFARLAND: That is correct.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: We hit it off and have stayed in touch since then. At the recent year of the Peer Conference, we got to reconnect and so happy to have you on the program today. So we can go ahead and get into it. We’d like to hear your story of origin and how you receive services, Peer Services yourself and then what you’re doing now, working as an independent contractor for HYPE. I believe it is, is that right?

SARAH MCFARLAND: That is correct, yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And then also what you’re doing at the LINKS Center. And then our overall arching theme is going to be talking about race as it relates to being a Peer Recovery Specialist and a woman of color. So your trials and triumphs and how that is your experience. So why don’t you get us started? Tell us about how things got started for you.

SARAH MCFARLAND: So how things got started for me, my wellness journey began, I would say, in 2014. My daughter was having some challenges as she was at the beginning stages of puberty, having some emotional ups and downs, some challenges in schools with bullying. So she transferred and was at a different school. The transfer really didn’t help. It just really solidified the fact that she was the outsider in her mind and she really struggled with that. And as a parent, I didn’t know how to help her manage her emotions. I didn’t know how to support her because I was raised by my grandparent with a lot of support from my great-grandparents. So I think I had a lot of their way of viewing the world. My worldview was kind of jaded by dictatorship. So whatever I say and whatever I tell you to do, you do. And there’s no real communication between the two of us concerning what your needs are and how to address what your needs are.

So I think I compounded her trauma. I didn’t know it at the time. I just thought I was doing what was best for her by just letting her know that I did hear what she was saying and what was going on. And it really wasn’t until she started to have like the depression symptoms that I was like, okay, this is not just some children bullying her at school and she’s not feeling well because of it. It’s like, it’s really impacting her mental wellness. She is depressed. She is anxious. She and it’s not just puberty because I was really thinking it was the onset of puberty that had her really emotional and moody. But I think it was a combination of both of those things looking back. So she struggled tremendously. There were a couple of stays in the hospital. She got involved with the Juvenile Justice System. And that’s when things change for me. From being a parent trying to help a child manage her mental health challenges to me, having to look at my own upbringing and address some of the things that were now presenting themselves to me. For example, she was hanging out with some kids that I didn’t agree with, so she was breaking curfew coming in the house late.

We were having a lot of arguments between the two of us. And at that time, she was already prescribed medication and was court ordered to take this medication. And when she broke curfew this particular night, I began to fuss at her about not listening, not obeying the house rules. And in return, she took her medication, all of it in its entirety. And we went to the hospital, and as they began to help her get the medication out of her, I kind of was transported in time, back to a time when my brother had attempted suicide and got me to assist him by giving him the water and finding the paper for him to write the note and being instructed to give the note to my mom at a particular time. I was eight years old. I didn’t know how to tell time really well, but I vividly remember him telling me when the large hand gets on this number, then you can go let mom know what’s going on.

So even though my daughter was in crises and needed stabilization at that moment, I wasn’t even present. I was back on the porch watching the paramedics pump my brother’s stomach. And that’s when I knew it wasn’t just about what was going on with my daughter. It was about a lot of generational stuff that no one ever talked about and needed to be talked about. So I was working at a behavioral health center. I went into my supervisor and I said, I had a flashback last night. It was my very first one that I can recall and I need some help. And she directed me to the Employee Assistance Program. And from there, I had a couple of appointments set up and I began to not share my story. You know, she asked me a series of questions. You know, she probed a little bit. She was very respectful and made it easy for me to share, but there was a lot of shame there. So I couldn’t tell her the things that had gone on in my life. I was not transparent.

So I kind of, you know, went to those first five sessions. Considered myself well, because I could say I went to therapy and didn’t go back again for a few years when another set of family events took place and some stuff came up again. And I was like, okay, the only way I’m going to be able to help my kid is if I really help myself. And I started therapy and I got really honest and was confused and angry and mad in the cycles that kept repeating itself, confused, angry and mad. But then after a while when certain things in life would present themselves, I saw that I was approaching it differently and I could see it from a different perspective. So I knew that therapy was really working.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah. And so you know, you ease into it because it’s scary and shame and or guilt show up. And but there it sounds like through the trouble that your daughter was going through, where the seeds of your work as a peer and receiving peer services, even though it was, you know, it may have started with therapy, it started with your boss, you know, and that’s where it begins. People would live the experience. And so, we met in 2016. And so, what time frame was this you were talking about with your daughter and when you started, you know, getting into peer help for yourself and whatnot?

SARAH MCFARLAND: I say 2014, because that’s really when I started my work, the serious work. My daughter’s issue started in 2004, she was 14 years old, a lot of fours in there. But so, yeah, it was right around 2014. I had just come back to Virginia in 2011. And I moved back with the intention of being a part of the solution because I kept running into family and friends in my community that I grew up in, which are small rural communities. And it seemed to be plagued with a lot of poverty. There were no opportunities for work there. So people really self-medicating with alcohol and drugs. And I kept saying, okay, maybe I can come home and try to, in some way, shape or form, be a part of the solution. Maybe I could connect with some local churches. Maybe I could do some things with the Department of Social Services. Maybe create a program and get the police to be involved.

You know, I just really wanted to do something that was going to help the community, but also bridge the gap between the services that were already there, and the people who were in need of services. So, you know, that’s what kind of brought me back to Virginia. But when I got here, like I said, you know, there was some things going on with my kid. And I needed to really be honest about where I was because I didn’t want to bleed on anyone else, you know, trying to help. So I knew I had to be well enough to set healthy boundaries when it came to supporting people, because that was one of the challenges that I had, and I still have today as a peer. I’m a helper, you know, I’m a healer, I’m a server. And sometimes I have to remind myself of what we say in the peer world we do with and not for, and I have to leave it there. And that’s a challenge for me sometimes, depending on the circumstances.

I’ve supported families that didn’t have food and didn’t have access to transportation, because they were in rural communities, and I desperately wanted to just put them in my car and drive them to the food bank, but because of the agencies that I’ve worked for, that was not something that I could do. And, you know, the families would be okay with it because they were accustomed to the struggle, but my heart would just break, and I’d come home and I’d cry and I’d say, Oh, God, you know, what do I do in a situation where I’m supposed to support and help, but it’s kind of limited what you can do within your role as a peer sometimes. And I think that’s where being very resourceful and being able to look for community resources and connect them to those supports is very helpful.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You know, you don’t get into peer work because you don’t like people and you really could care less if they get help. I mean, like, that’s not why you bring peer work. You know, we as peers have an affinity toward people in general and other peers who have the same experience we do. And we by nature, most of us are helpers, fixers, rescuers. And most of that comes from not wanting other people to experience the pain and suffering we have experienced. And it is difficult sometimes when you know the answer and you know the solution, because there are answers and there are solutions, not in every situation, but in a lot of them, there are. In this case, transportation to food line, that fixes the problem, at least for tonight, right? But you have the parameters of being the peer and the agency and whatnot. And, you know, that it says a lot about you, that you would have that compassion when you got home and to shed a tear over their hardship. And I think that’s the essence of not that you, not that we have to cry, per se, but, you know, that shows the level of care by which you are doing this work.

And so as we talk about your move through your daughter’s trauma, you come back to Virginia and you had your first flashback, you come back to Virginia, you get involved in the peer service world. So it seems like, you know, nowadays they have a month for everything, right? They have like ice cream month, they have like take a nap month. And then they have more serious months, which are important as well, you know, cancer awareness and awareness for the stat of the other. And July was BIPOC awareness. For those of you who aren’t familiar with the term, it’s Black Indigenous People of Color. And we’re in August now. It’s not that the awareness only happens July 1 through July 31st, and then we’re done till next year. You know, that’s not the case. And so as we think about the context of what you’ve been doing in the peer world, I’d like to take a look at it through the lens of BIPOC. So as I was saying, BIPOC stands for Black Indigenous People of Color. What does that term mean for you and how do you identify with that term?

SARAH MCFARLAND: What does that term mean to me? I think we are living in a day and age when everything needs to be assigned something to make it unique and identifiable in the midst of everything else that’s going on. So I’m okay with the fact that culturally there is a acronym that kind of puts us all together in terms of people of color. But as a person of color, it’s really important to me to stress the fact that even though we are similar in a way that we’ve been marginalized, we as Black people in America have our own fight still. And as a Black woman in America, there is still a lot to be said about what is going on within the culture. And in terms of mental health, substance use, you know, that’s a whole different fight, you know. Getting services, having access to services, meeting the criteria for services, especially if you’re in a small rural community. There are a lot of barriers there. And there’s not a lot of access. Just based on the BIPOC community, and then again, like I said, breaking it down to being black and then being a woman, and then living in poverty in a small and a rural community has so many barriers.

And that is part of, when I look at it, that is what I see all encompassing that particular struggle for women of color who have challenges with substance use disorder and mental illness or both, dual diagnosed, that are in poverty-stricken communities that just don’t have access to the support that they need. Yeah, I don’t know if that answers the question, but that’s kind of what I think about when I think about the BIPOC community. How it kind of groups everyone together, but I see that even though we’re identified as a group of people, there are still individual struggles for each person that is represented in that group of people.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Right. Individuality in tandem with the collective.

SARAH MCFARLAND: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Because none of us are the same and so we all have different struggles and we can have overarching identification or I don’t like the word categorization, but like attributes that can inform a group of folks, but it doesn’t lose the individuality and the experience thereof. So speaking of the individuality, was there a time that you first became aware of the identity of woman person of color in your life? Was there a time where you went, okay, I’m this, and what does this mean? Good, bad, right or wrong and different? And it may not have happened. I don’t know.

SARAH MCFARLAND: Yeah, it happened. From the womb.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Okay. I can say when I was a redhead, when I noticed it, but it’s not about me.

SARAH MCFARLAND: Well, I’d like to say this, and I’m speaking from my own lived experience, and I know that there are other black people who have similar experience, especially from the same economic background. From the time that I can, the earliest memories I have, it was taught to me that I was a black person. You know, I knew that I was black before I knew that I was girl, really. Because my grandparents, my uncles that were there, that were helping to raise me, the community that I grew up in was a black community. There were no white people except for another part of town. So, you know, but within my block, a couple of blocks over each direction, there were no white people from zero to 10 years old.

And then we moved to another community at age 10. And I stayed there until 18. And it was different there. The culture was different. There were white and black families. But it was the same thing as the other community that I grew up in. People linked together because of economics, not because of race. So I had white friends that were poor, just as I was. And it wasn’t a division because of race, it was a division because of class and finances. And I think race played a lot in it, because the people who had more, the business owners, the people who had the better jobs, were always people that did not look like us. And there was a certain level of respect that my grandparents expected me to have towards these people when I was in the community. Even if it was engagement of disrespect towards them, I was expected to keep my mouth closed, not question anyone, and to be mannerable even in the face of adversity.

So it was very clear to me as a young child that I was black and that the dominant population was white and that I was to stay in my place and not cause any problems. Later when I became a young woman, it was really stressed to me that I should not be angry, I should not raise my voice, I should not act unseemly because again, the dominant race and the culture is expecting me to behave this way is what I was told by my grandparents. They expect you to act unseemly. So you better be on your P’s and Q’s, you cross every T, dot every I, and you better work twice as hard because your skin color is a barrier to employment, to education, to economics just across the board. So I was really taught to labor with my hands to guarantee that no matter what happened in the world, I would always know how to put a seed in the ground and have food on the table and to live a very minimalistic and simple lifestyle, to guarantee that I would survive no matter what happened in the world.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So yeah, you’re dealing with a situation where it’s not even about, oh, let’s see how successful I can be and make lots of money or have this prestige or all that. It’s just, I just need to make sure I got food on the table because at this point, what I’m being told as a child is it’s a very dangerous world and there are people that look like this who don’t like people like me who look like this and things can go south real quick. And so, I better act, quote, unquote, a certain way for safety. It sounds like it was one of the reasons. Survival, the outside looking in, expectations.

You know, they say that perception is reality. I always put a comma after that and say, yeah, but reality is not always perception. So, it’s interesting how when we look at race, we may see someone of a different color, shade, or tone and think in our head, that person is boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And really they’re boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And it could be they’re really, really nice in your mind, like, no, not so much when you meet them or they’re really, really mean and then no, actually, they’re really, really nice, you know. And it’s a shame in our world that we see in color in the sense that it divides and it comes with presuppositions of character and opportunity and resources and all that sort of stuff. We, I think we forget, you and I have talked about it, about the common thread of humanity. But having that common thread doesn’t in any way, shape or form, lessen the experience or struggle that you’re talking about. It doesn’t make it an excuse. Would you agree?

SARAH MCFARLAND: Yes, I agree. I think sometimes it intensifies the struggle, which brings us back to the question of our mental wellness, and how well we’re going to survive, and how we’re going to manage when we feel that, not only when we just feel that there are no resources or support, but there actually are no resources or supports. Because of particular barriers.

Like I said, I have a very tender spot for rural communities. I grew up in a town that had one traffic light. Even now, you and I are on two different sides of town, and we have technology, and we’re accessing the Zoom, and we’re having a conversation and creating a podcast, but there are people that are in that small community that don’t have internet access, that will never be able to hear this. Or if they do have access to Medicaid, they may have a Medicaid phone, but because of where they live, the internet connection is bad. It’s just little things like that, that are barriers to people getting the support that they need to help them stabilize and maintain a sense of wellness in a day and age where we’re talking about mental health so much, and there are so many different programs, and the government is providing all types of money, but they don’t have access to it.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: That in of itself creates, it’s almost like the walls caving in. Well, if you go back to COVID, we were quarantined because of this pandemic, but in a sense, and I use the word lightly just for illustration, it’s like there’s a part that’s quarantined away from the resources. We have internet connection now that’s working great for both of us, and I can see you, you can see me, we’re in two different houses, two different rooms across miles, and we’ll record this video and this audio.

And for some folks who have never seen that or heard it blow their mind, but the quarantine has kept them from probably some even knowing that that’s even an option and available. And I know for some folks, it creates even fear like, well, why are all these newfangled things? I don’t have access to that people use and, you know, it just, it, you know, like you’re talking about, it creates that the barriers and limitation. Has there ever been a time in your life where your self-image as a black woman went into a negative place or a place of, dare I say, self-loathing or self-hatred or wishing you were another tone or shade in your skin?

SARAH MCFARLAND: The beginning part of that statement, yes. There have been times that I’ve been in situations that I have, you know, really wanted the circumstances to change. And I wondered and pondered what it would be like if I was not a black woman. But I’ve never wanted to have the experience of being anyone other than me. I take a lot of pride in the fact that I am a black woman. I use the term black and not Afro-American because I think it has a certain power in it for me.

I’m a huge fan of James Brown. And I can remember being a little girl and being in the living room and, you know, the adults are playing cards or drinking. And James Brown is playing, say it loud, I’m black and I’m proud. And they all would get excited and clap their hands and dance. And that was probably one of the few times that there was drinking that was connected to festivity and not violence. So that kind of developed in me. It was something to be celebrated that I was black. And I should be proud because all the adults kind of, you know, they celebrated it.

Well, you know, growing up, there was a lot of inspirational music that really solidified who I was as a black person. It wasn’t just James Brown. It was Nina Simone of, you know, it was various people that we would listen to, that really embraced their Afro centricness. You know, they weren’t shying away from it. It wasn’t commercial. And I mean, no disrespect by saying this. When I looked at people who presented like Sam Cooke, you know, clean cut, short hair, suit, you know, a little bit more commercial. You know, I love his music. I love what he was doing before, you know, his untimely death. But it was a different feel when I looked at maybe Abel Withers, you know, who had the Afro and the guitar and the acoustic sound that was more in tune, it seemed, with the time of being free-spirited and, you know, just welcome and love. The humanity and it all.Yeah. So it was a different time.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: It’s interesting how we qualify things. You know, we name things to make meaning out of them. You know, what is white mean? What is black mean? So when we talk about your experience, BIPOC experience, what does the word white mean to you? When you hear the word white, whether it’s talking about white people or just white in general, does it have, is it a loaded word? Is it just what goes through your mind?

SARAH MCFARLAND: It is a loaded word. I think part of the reason is because when I think of white, like you said, not just in the context of people, but anything being white, you have to be super sensitive with it. Because when you wear white clothes, you have to be guarded about what you do and how you move, because you don’t want to get it dirty. It’s the same thing if you have a white car, if you have white carpet, if you have a white event, everything has to be pristine and it has to be in order.

I think when we translate that into race, that is the way it’s been fed to us as people of color or Black people. That white is better, it is set apart, it is the cream of the crop, so to speak. You should aspire to be that way. Not directly, as individuals, but as a collective. My grandparents never said to me that I was less than or not as worthy because I was Black, but that the world would perceive me as that way. They were clear in that, that letting me know that I am a unique, beautiful, strong, independent person, a woman, who could do great things, but the world would not see me that way because it is ruled by White men. I should be very cautious and stay in my place.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: When you mentioned earlier about the White folks and the White men, that you have to be cautious, what is it like to be on a podcast about race and talking about being a woman of color? And being interviewed by a White guy, which is a loaded question. We’re talking about important things. I think it’s a fair question as we talk about these things.

SARAH MCFARLAND: What is it like? The experience itself is very comfortable for me because I’m comfortable with you. I can’t say that I would have that same experience if it was a different White guy to be completely honest. Looking back, even 40 years ago, when we were both very small children, it may have not been something that was encouraged. Even just having a playdate, that was something that wouldn’t have happened in my community. I think historically, again, the relationship between White men and Black women is one of trauma.

When we think about it, the brutal experiences that Black women have had, not just with rape and being displaced from their children, their children being sold from them, being experimented on, imprisoned, all of those things play a role in, I think, the relationship between Black women and white men. I guess, it’s very complex because it’s a lot of layers to it. And when I examine it, it just brings me back to my baseline, which is this, I feel safe with you. I can have a conversation with you. And there are other white men that are in my circle of peers and friends that I equally feel safe with, that I can share intimate details about my life and my recovery process that I can call on for support. And I know that I am going to be supported in a healthy, meaningful way that is going to be mutual for both of us.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And for me, as a white guy, doing the interview with a black woman and asking questions about race is with you personally not that uncomfortable because of the things you mentioned as friends and etc. It is uncomfortable in one sense because I feel that how I have to phrase the question. So that it is, how do I say it? Not white. I mean, for lack of a better way to put it. And if there was one thing you could say to white peers and you knew they would hear you, and they would listen, and they wouldn’t come back. But any kind of retort or anything, you could just say it and they’d hear it. What would that be?

SARAH MCFARLAND: I think historically, there have been what we called abolitionist, to now we call allies. I think there has to be some connection there to the past trauma and the present trauma and forming some kind of relationship where there is an exchange of what is happening and what is needed to happen. I think continuing to have conversations and build relationships that are based on mutuality, that changes our worldview, that opens us up to more compassion and sensitivity is what we need.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Sarah, thanks so much for being on the program today. We’ve covered a lot of ground from your identity as a woman of color and how that has affected the trials and tribulations of your life as a human being first and as a Peer Recovery Specialist and I just want to thank you for your vulnerability today. I know it’s going to be impactful to those who listen. I want to thank our listeners for listening to the Peer Into Recovery podcast, which is brought to you by the Virginia Peer Recovery Specialist Network and Mental Health America of Virginia. If you like our show and would like to subscribe to the podcast, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org and please leave us a brief review on iTunes. In the meantime, please take care of yourselves, everyone. We’ll see you soon.