CHRIS NEWCOMB: Welcome to Peer Into Recovery, a podcast with a focus on the profession of peer support. For more information about how to subscribe, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org. Welcome to another edition of Peer Into Recovery podcast. I’m your host, Chris Newcomb. Thanks for joining us today.

We have a great guest. Her name is Heather Pate. She comes to us as the Director of Operations from Robins Hope here in Richmond, Virginia. In 2017, she became a CPRS and then upgraded to an RPRS. She’s a certified older adult peer support trainer. She’s also certified to work as a trainer with the LGBTQIA plus community. She’s WRAP certified trainer. She’s diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice involved certified trainer. She’s also a trainer for trauma-informed care. She is a peer activated resilience trainer, and a state trainer of the DBHDS 72-hour PRS training, and an all-around great person. So, Heather, how are you doing today?

HEATHER PATE: I’m doing great. Doing great. I’m glad to be here.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Thank you so much for being a part of the program. So let’s get right into it. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your story of origin, and tell us about how you got into peer services yourself, and then we’ll kind of segue into what you’re doing as a Director of Operations over at Robin’s Hope.

HEATHER PATE: Absolutely. So I got kind of into my own personal stories coming out of trauma, lots and lots of trauma, early on in life, and doing everything I could to please my parents so that I could get love. And whether that was something that they wanted in that time or not, it’s just what I was. And then I got myself pressed and anxious, self-injury, all that kind of stuff was coming up in my teenage years, on and off in my early 20s, in and out of therapy. And I later in my 20s, in and out of the hospital. And so I was in and out the hospital well over 10 times.

And I started to get that feeling that it was more comfortable in the hospital than I was in my own community. And I happened to come across the Peer Run Organization. And that organization supported, had a peer specialist, and I went to their drama group. And that made a huge difference just in the very first time I went there, was able to connect with people. The group was very encouraging. I was going through a difficult time even in that moment. And I remember the peer specialist taking me outside, off to the porch, and said, you know, here, I’m going to give you this piece of paper, and this is a personal Bill of Rights. And this is something that we all get. And I looked at it and just kept like, no, I’m the exception to the rule, exception to the rule, exception to the rule all the way down. I couldn’t process that.

But over time, I started to recognize or, and she afforded me opportunities to see that I have that right. She knew she couldn’t change my mind, but she could be there and model it for me. And she passed away, but she has, I know she’s watching over it. I remember that trauma group and her really pushing the bounds of starting a trauma group. And then I had in my mind, what about a trauma like specific trauma and resilience program? And so personally, I had to start with getting myself taken care of. And and I did so. And then, yeah, 2018, here I am. I got the certification in 2017. I had no clue what I was going to use it for. No clue. I’m like, somebody’s just dragging me. You’re going to like this.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: This is the certification you want.

HEATHER PATE: Like, OK, let me just see. And I knew the certification came with being fathered, grandfathered into without taking the test. And I was so excited about that part. I didn’t care what I was getting into.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You can skip a test. I mean, hey, skip the test. So I did college.

HEATHER PATE: But I didn’t know what I was going to do. It ends up I came out of that training. I ended up with my chronic pain came up significantly. And I was out for a while, had no clue what I was going to do. And then in the hospital, actually, they’re trying to help me manage pain in my brain because of that pain. And they were able to help me reduce the pain level. And as soon as they did that, I started going and interacting with everybody on the unit. And then as I left, everybody’s giving me a hug and I realized that that’s what this is all about. And that I want to continue to build that as an opportunity in the community for people to connect, share, be with one another.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So you came to that place of giving back that which was given to you.

HEATHER PATE: Yeah.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Pass it on as they say in the 12-step world.

HEATHER PATE: Yep, absolutely.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So, powerful story, particularly the little vignette you gave of the PRS who met with you and took you outside and shared the personal Bill of Rights. And you said that as you read each one, you were like, exception to the rule. What is it like now when you read the Bill of Rights for personal Bill of Rights?

HEATHER PATE: A completely different experience. So we started our RISE group at Robin’s Hope, and part of that was reading the personal Bill of Rights at the beginning, mostly also because I needed to hear it. Sure. And over time, I have, there were certain rights that I would accept more than others. And my, the hardest one for me was the right to be playful and frivolous. I just thought that’s silly. That’s not, you know, and now I’m at that place where I’m like, yeah, heck yeah, I can be playful and frivolous. In fact, playful is all about healing.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: A lot of times we take that message as kids, that the real person matures and doesn’t ever do that anymore. So you put it in a closet, so to speak, or you throw it out the window, whatever you want to do, and not access that again. So that kind of sets the tone for you. And then tell us how you get to Jeremiah Foundation and Robin’s Hope.

HEATHER PATE: All right. So over time, I was a roommate with one of my close friends, who’s actually co-founder of the organization initially. And I needed help making megan’s meat, and we came together and kind of worked that out. And it was like, all right, well, two works better than one in recognizing each other’s strengths, and supporting each other in those challenges. But then over time also seeing, like she brought in the Jeremiah Foundation, her and a previous roommate, and that roommate passed away, but that roommate wanted to see something along the lines of Robin’s Hope. Instead, it was more turning towards teenage support after school. And that wasn’t quite fitting. Again, the roommate passed away, and I met Jennifer’s probably good 10, 12 years after, 10 years after all of that.

And I’m like trying to find a way to go, all right, this is what helps and this is what doesn’t help. And I used to go through all of these clinical workbooks and pull out stuff that says, like, oh, that’s a great worksheet, that that makes sense. And then this one, oh, please give me a break. And I went through that, did that a whole lot. To the point we kind of created a resource. And even she shared some of that with her, people in the clinical world to end, some people took it seriously and really grew from those experiences, from going through that process. But in the midst of it, it was like, all right, so now what? And wanting to do a group of some kind, but trauma group, nobody wants to come and talk about the worst thing that’s ever happened in their life, which is complete random strangers. Yeah, come on.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Hey, I was just wondering if there’s a place I can feel depressed with everybody else? We have popcorn.

HEATHER PATE: But as we, I got introduced to this resilience card deck, and I started going through those cards, had a huge aha moment myself. It was like, you know, as much as these are normal concepts, like regular everyday concepts in our lives, I don’t think I’ve ever unpacked this in a way that I can see that I’m doing it in the healthy way. And so that created this group called Rise, and together we talked about different resilience skills and the way people use those resilience skills or how they accomplish doing those resilience skills. And I’m like, wow, I didn’t even know that, you know, I can really voice what I want to say to somebody and see that because I voiced it, it mattered. Yeah, it’s huge.

And I didn’t really like, I started to hear other people’s experiences and the way they did live their lives. And then I never failed, never failed about a month, maybe after that group, I’d be faced with a challenge to engage in that resilience skill. And I’m like, well, so and so said this worked for them. I’m going to give that a try. And next thing you know, people are turning around and like getting completely different responses. And I was like, wow, you know, I would have loved to have known this earlier in life. If you’ve not experienced healthy, then how are you able to give it to others or to express it yourself? And so then I realized that I needed to embrace these cards. And I really needed to bring them into my life. Yeah, it’s a resilience Card Deck by Community Resilience Initiative.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: The cards you’re talking about, this is not like Cards Against Humanity game.

HEATHER PATE: But it’s Virginia Health Care Foundation came up with an adult version of the card deck, which Community Resilience Initiative created as a child version. Virginia, a few people in Virginia worked on creating this adult card deck. And then I was just all in.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah, I think it sounds really cool. I mean, I’ll be honest, part of me is like, order that after the podcast, order that for yourself, just in case you need a shot in the arm of resilience. If you were to say, what are the top three resilience skills you’ve learned in your life that really help you personally? And then also informs your work at Robin’s Home.

HEATHER PATE: The first one that comes to mind is ask for help. Yeah, it is a huge one. Another one that really gets me. And I say those two in particular are probably the biggest for me. The second one is having one supportive other in our lives that doesn’t judge. I remember doing WRAP early on in my own recovery process. WRAP requires you to share your WRAP plan with like five people. And I sat there, I was married, I had a church family, I had all these people around me, and I’m looking at this thing going, I don’t trust anybody with this. And that again, falling into another aha moment. And I had to like think on that or process that. And what does that mean? And what does that look like? And how do I build relationships?

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah, I’ve learned in the work that I’ve done, just personally and professionally, that people need safety first. If they have safety, then they can build trust. If they have trust, then they can be vulnerable. And you got to have them in that order. If you don’t have safety, forget it. Because when you go out on that limb, because vulnerability and trust, they’re not coming. They’re left down. And safety never even showed up. So you got to have safety because you got to know, because we fear judgment and rejection. Those are the two big ones. Because everybody wants to be liked, loved, accepted for who they are, wherever they are, whenever they are.

HEATHER PATE: What?

CHRIS NEWCOMB: With the WRAP plan.

HEATHER PATE: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: When does Robin’s Hope kick off officially?

HEATHER PATE: Robin’s Hope officially kicked off on June 4th, 2018. And we opened to our first Rise group, which is that resilience card deck. And we had two people show up. Two people other than me and Jennifer. That was a win. 2018, yes. But we’ve known each other for a while prior to that. Yeah.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Okay. And so you did the Rise group, and two other people, and Jennifer Kell is the Executive Director. You guys have been working together since 2018.

HEATHER PATE: Correct. And people kept coming. Not only kept coming, but it started to build. That really, I found that I needed to be really vulnerable in those groups and be real.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And it’s been straight up from there.

HEATHER PATE: In order to make sure that everybody knew that that space was available to be vulnerable and authentic.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Give an example.

HEATHER PATE: If sometimes I wasn’t like I’m just putting it out there. This is where I’m at. And to see the group rally around one another and support one another was a big deal. And it just started kind of taking off. But then I put this whole piece, caveat into all of it and said, Jennifer, this is only going to grow as fast as I can handle it. And so, There you go.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: That’s going, hey, I know I have other levels. I can go to here. I can’t go to here yet. I got to get to here first. And then it’s like anything in life. It’s standing up in the face of stress and stressors and adding them gently so your body and your mind can take on the more stress and be able to stand under it.

HEATHER PATE: Yeah. Yeah. Stand under it. That’s a really good point. It weighs a lot.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: It crushes me. Yeah. Well, you know, the basis and that just goes back to, as you know, being a trainer for the PRS stuff. You know, I always joke with people and go, self-care is the best care. I mean, without it, you have nothing. If you can’t take care of yourself, you can’t help anybody else. I mean, I’m a certified lifeguard. It’s like, I’m told exactly what to say to you in the water, which is stay there. I’m coming to you. I’m going to swim behind you. Don’t touch me. I’m going to drown you because you’re going to try to drown me.

HEATHER PATE: Yeah, absolutely.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: It’s knowing what the sources are and when to get involved and when to go.

HEATHER PATE: So along with that whole, it’s only going to grow as fast as I can take it. I started thinking about how I was there usually all day on Mondays, just thinking through things and what I wanted to see happen for groups and all of that. I’m like, well, why don’t we just open half a day on Mondays? Then have people to hang out with. That’s exciting. And then people like that and it started to build. And I’m like, no extra days, can’t handle any other extra days. And then over time, I was able to handle that piece of it and then say, hey, what does it look like to open another day? And then start to do that. And we actually opened for a full day on Wednesday right before COVID. And I actually think COVID was very helpful for me in pacing because I probably took on more than I could chew at that point. And that shifted my world a little bit in the way that I broke up my time.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah, the whole world was like, boom, relax.

HEATHER PATE: And so I started offering more opportunities to meet and connect. And then I’m hearing people say, hey, I woke up this morning, I was in a really bad mood, and I couldn’t get myself reset. I came to check in, I’m feeling a little better, I feel encouraged, if nothing else. So I’m going to give it like another shot at the day. And then saying that by going to that peer check-in, they had like a new opportunity to get through the day in a different way. And that was a big deal.

So as COVID happened, what I know for myself is change is difficult. And so having all of this change in our world that we didn’t have control over, what do we have control over? And immediately had to pivot into Zoom and some of that stuff, and get a few people used to that idea, train them a little teeny bit. I think our last day, I was going through all the details about Zoom, and I said, and see you in two days. We were growing as an organization in person, but when COVID happened, we started to really take off because there’s a need.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Well, and it goes back to resilience. And really, it sounds like here when COVID hits, you are beginning to really start to take on the seeds of Director of Operations, because now it’s how are we going to operate, literally. If we can’t meet in person because there’s this little thing that’s bugging everybody, whose name I’ve mentioned, COVID. Really, it sounds like the seeds for being Director of Operations is happening on the fly because as we all know, it was a left-hand turn for the entire planet. So you pivot, use the word pivot, which is part of being a leader and a director. So tell me, what does a day in the life of being a Director of Operations look like for you?

HEATHER PATE: All right. So I just want to put out there for everybody. I really don’t know what the heck I’m doing out here in this.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: I’m going to edit that out. Just lie. No, really, it’s, well, you’re a peer, right? So you speak out of your authority, your lived experience as a Director of Operations.

HEATHER PATE: Yeah, exactly. And so really the vulnerability of just being honest that I didn’t know what I was getting into, wasn’t sure how to do the work that was coming up. But I was open to learn and very much open to make the mistakes and figure out what works, what doesn’t work. But I did, I showed up at Joshua Field Chamber of Commerce saying, I don’t know what in the world I’m doing, but this thing is taking off and I don’t, you know, I need some guidance, some help. And they were there to help me when I, in directions that were more indirect, I guess, to the organization.

But so I say that to say that every day is different, of course, but I have meetings throughout the day, whether it be with a contractor, like later today in the IT world, trying to get some better IT infrastructure under us, so that people aren’t coming to me going, oh, I have a computer problem. All right. So now, where do I, where do we get people going when they do have a computer problem instead of pulling me? And then like financially looking to people who have that education and knowledge, and how they can help us create processes that make sure that we’re doing what we say we’re going to do and then it’s transparent. Yeah. And I think I tend to be like over cautious on that and like always contacting the state. Hey, did I do this right? Hey, is this going on right? What am I supposed to do here?

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah, I’m just not interested in the money you’re sending me. So I’m just going to say that live. I’m sending it back, which is a joke, people.

HEATHER PATE: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: They have great fiduciary integrity there at Robin’s Hope.

HEATHER PATE: But they’ve been helpful in that process of me learning what needs to be submitted. Yes. And I don’t have the… I can’t handle the weight of holding secrets and such. I just… I can’t.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Financial transparency keeps businesses not only afloat, but helps them prosper. I’m convinced. I heard a band once say in their song, basically that they make their bed with honesty, so they don’t have to sleep with shadows in the room. I mean, obviously, personally, we want integrity and honesty to be one of those just kind of qualities that we have, but that plays into our leadership because the organization lives or dies on leadership and financial. We all have areas that we grow in, and when we know that there’s an area that we’re not great at, we pull in somebody who is.

HEATHER PATE: Exactly, right. Yeah, so I brought in an outside contractor to help us establish these processes for submitting our funding information on time. And that person happened to be a state auditor in the past. And so it’s like having coming in and being like, okay, well, you need to do this process, and it needs to be double-checked and triple-checked so that it all comes together the same number. And I just, wow, okay, thank you, and seeing the purpose behind that. So really leaning on other people and their strengths. A lot of times, to be honest, somebody comes to me with a question, I’m like, well, what do you think? Because it’s not always what I think is the best way. Do a lot of that.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Bing, right back at you. Which also buys time when you’re really searching for the answer.

HEATHER PATE: So yeah, yes. Right. Reaching out to the people who have the knowledge, asking for help, raising my flag, raising the red flag, you know, when things are getting to be too much, and recognizing when I feel like I’ve bit off more than I can chew. Jennifer is one of those people for me that, you know, I can just let it rip if I have any kind of internal judgment or things going on in my mind, I just let it out. But then also go, hey, this is you have a choice to come and do this work. And and I’m like, you’re right. And I’m like, all right. So you don’t have to come in today if that seems too overwhelming. And I really needed somebody to break that down into a really basic way. Or is there going to be somebody who lives or dies today because you’re not at Robin’s Hope? I’m like, well, no, people are big. They can take care of themselves.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: One.

HEATHER PATE: So I had to really recognize that it’s not me and that people feed off of one another and encourage one another. And I was seeing that happen in the groups, which is something that I had really hoped for. And so being able to model what I’ve learned from other people in those experiences and kind of struggle with that imposter syndrome of, you know, because I’m a person in recovery, everybody else. It just so happened that all of this stuff came together. And yeah, it was a lot of work. But it doesn’t have to stay that way.

So now it’s like, okay, this was my dream. So now what does it look like for others and their dream? Remembering that what I needed is going to be different than what other people needed. And so I do a lot of empowering individuals to be part of the process of Robin’s Hope, empowering voice and choice. Sometimes that somebody says, you don’t have to be. I mean, I’m not saying that in a mean way, but it’s like, really, you have a choice. So if somebody comes into our virtual group, our in-person group, I have an opportunity to empower, uplift, support, listen, all of this stuff. But when they, and give resources, but when they leave, I have to stop there.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So a couple of areas of your responsibility that you’ve talked about is IT infrastructure. And working with finances and getting people in place there to help with the ins and outs of that. And then you got some wisdom and help from the Chamber of Commerce as well.

HEATHER PATE: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And then you talked about leaning on other people’s strengths, which I think is a great trait for a leader because it really makes things a lot easier.

HEATHER PATE: Yes, it does.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Are there other areas, because it’s a long learning curve, to try to figure out how to try to be good in all those areas that you have responsibility in outside of the IT and the finance and media programming, I would imagine.

HEATHER PATE: So, yes, absolutely, programming, which came out of originally the design of Friends for Recovery. And what I remember back when I had a peer specialist there, and what that looked like, and trying to build a similar feel into the space. What are the things that I need to learn? What are the things I need to grow in? Okay, now I’m going to turn around and go, what are the things that you’d like to see here that you want to implement? And that it’s not just our facilitators or interns that are facilitating the groups. Like, what do you want? And let’s see how you can make that happen. And that usually is a big-

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You’re wearing twin hats, because usually a Director of Operations is really only about function, not about casting vision. And you, sounds like you get to do a little bit of both. You get to help shape the operation with casting vision. How is that satisfying personally?

HEATHER PATE: Yeah. So a quick side is that Jeremiah Foundation Inc. has a board, and I actually am the board chair, but I’m not a staff member at Robin’s Hope. I am taking on the role of a Director of Peer services or Operations. But the idea is to really make sure that Robin’s Hope stays consistent to a peer run program. If I need to step in and go, this is not a peer direction, then I can do that. But also then put my input on what do we really need in this space? How do we encourage people to talk? And sometimes that was me jumping into a group and going, Jennifer, has anybody journaled about that? And I’m like, please stop it. How many people in this room journaled? I’m like raising my hand going, no, I haven’t. And then letting the room kind of like realize that everybody here in this space is here as they are. The titles are gone and we’re all just trying to help one another. And so I wanted to kind of pivot that way briefly. Coming back to…

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah, no, it’s fine. You are kind of wearing two hats because traditionally Director of Operations is really about making the organization run the nuts and bolts of it. And really a big part of that is troubleshooting. And so usually casting vision is not something a Director of Operations does. But you get to do both. Casting the vision, the Director of Operations position, there may be a collective synergy there because you can think along two tracks. Like, okay, this is what I want done. This is how I’m going to do it.

HEATHER PATE: Yeah, it’s casting vision. I’m coming from my board chair hat. Like, I’ve got these two different hats and I can pick that one up and go, okay, what do we want to see for the future? And leaning towards the rest of the board, because again, it’s not just my ideas. Like, what do y’all see? What do you want? And then double checking and making sure it’s kind of following the vision. And then I can turn around and go, so I’m actually visionary in the Director of Operations or Director of Peer services, because I am helping create processes that will go, hopefully, for long periods of time and keep Robin going in the future, is by creating those processes that make the work manageable.

That actually, you really nailed it. It’s the nuts and bolts and going, okay, well, where does this piece fit into this? And let me adjust that knob a little bit. Oh, is that not working really well? Okay, let’s talk about that. What do you think will work well? does that fall in line with the mission of the organization? Is this what we want to see as a peer run organization? Okay, yes. Well, guess what? Let’s start implementing that idea. It’s really good. And encouraging people to bring those ideas and also recognize that not always, some ideas are good, some, not that they’re not good or bad, but some work in this arena, some don’t. And then being able to pivot, being able to pivot and adjust when something isn’t working out the way it needs to work out. And let’s make it better and better and better and better. Yeah. And I think the other piece of that is I also am able to do projects and training and stuff like that. And all of that is like that splash, you know, that’s just icing on the cake and what I really kind of enjoy more so than just about anything else.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: It’s all about troubleshooting, right? There are problems. So let me find them. Because as soon as I find them, I can find solutions. When I find solutions, things get better. Operations is really, you got to have the vision, but then, you know, that’s the basics. But then you’ve got to have the operations, you know, and then what it all comes down to, what’s the bottom line? Change lives. Heather, thank you so much for being on our podcast today.

HEATHER PATE: Thank you.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And as we close, I think it’s apropos that I’d like to have you read the personal Bill of Rights that were so effective in your life and life changing, and that have guided your work there at Robins Hope and your work as a visionary and as a Director of Operations, if you will close us with that.

HEATHER PATE: So, our personal Bill of Rights, I have a right to ask for what I want. I have a right to say no to requests for demands that I cannot meet. I have a right to express all of my feelings, positive and negative. I have a right to change my mind. I have a right to make it have to be perfect. I have a right to follow my own values and beliefs. I have the right to say no to anything if I feel that I’m not ready, if it is unsafe or if it conflicts with my values. I have the right to determine my own priorities. I have the right to not be responsible for actions, feelings, or behaviors of others. I have the right to expect honesty from others. I have the right to be angry at someone I love. I have the right to be myself, to be unique. I have the right to express fear. I have the right to say I don’t know. I have the right not to give excuses or reasons for my behavior. I have the right to make decisions based on my feelings. I have a right to my own personal space and time. I have the right to be playful and frivolous. I have a right to be healthier than those around me. I have a right to feel safe and be in a non-abusive environment. I have a right to make friends and be comfortable around people. I have the right to change and grow. I have the right to have my wants and needs respected by others. I have the right to be treated with dignity and respect. And I have the right to be happy.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Well, may all of our listeners also, if they have not heard those before, take a moment to rewind and listen to them again and listen to them again until they sink in because they are wonderful truths that we should all really be able to hold for ourselves. And so thanks again for being a part of the show.

HEATHER PATE: Thank you, Chris.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: I want to thank our listeners for listening to the Peer Into Recovery podcast, which is brought to you by the Virginia Peer Specialist Network and Mental Health America of Virginia. And if you like our show and would like to subscribe to the podcast, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org. And please leave us a brief review on iTunes. In the meantime, please take care of yourselves, everyone. We’ll see you soon.