DANIELLE DONALDSON: Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us. I am your host, Danielle Donaldson. In this episode, I’m going to be speaking with Heather Fossen and Kevin Kelly about group facilitation as a peer recovery specialist. Heather and Kevin are senior facilitators for Mental Health America of Virginia. Heather is a certified peer recovery specialist, a crisis intervention team instructor, a Copeland Center certified RAP facilitator, and has facilitated extensive workshops at Vision’s Day program for the Local Community Services Board in Culpeper. Kevin serves as a certified and registered peer recovery specialist, a Copeland Center certified RAP facilitator, a qualified mental health professional, and a crisis intervention team trainer presenter at Henrico Area Mental Health & Developmental Services located in Glen Allen. Hi, Heather and Kevin. Welcome and thank you for joining me today. How are you doing?

KEVIN KELLY: Hey, Danielle. Great to be with you today.

HEATHER FOSSEN: Hi, thanks for having us.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Hey, I’m so glad you guys are here. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast to talk about your work as group facilitators. So let’s get into it. Would you guys both mind sharing how long you’ve been doing this, and what made you move from peer to peer specialist?

KEVIN KELLY: Sure. I’ll do ladies first if that’s okay, Heather.

HEATHER FOSSEN: Sure. Well, I will say that we’ve probably been doing this. I’ve probably been doing this for about eight years. What really did it for me was a crisis stabilization unit stay. While I was there, I saw the facilitators running groups as peers, and everything just really came at me in a different way, and really inspired me. So the morning before I left, I actually just came down for breakfast, and I could smell the coffee and the bagels had just came up, and I was going for some cream cheese. I opened up the refrigerator and I knocked over a magnet, and a flyer went across the floor. So I picked up the flyer and I noticed it was a trainee to become a peer specialist. I just knew right then and there, this is what I’m supposed to do. So miraculously, two weeks later, I was sitting at the Kenmore Club for Heather Seamans’ first ever peer specialist training.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Wow, that’s awesome. Actually, and I can really relate to that story. It sounds familiar to my journey. Kevin, how about you?

KEVIN KELLY: You betcha. I am currently in my 15th year of service with the Henrico Area Mental Health & Developmental Services. And the way I got into the profession, so to speak, I made the move from houston, Texas to Richmond, Virginia back in 2007. And my parents threw some friends from church, found out that their son was also receiving services from Henrico Mental Health. And my parents said, that’s really interesting. We have a son that lives in houston that will be making the move up here. So I got connected with Henrico Mental Health and got connected to a case manager. And part of the goals that we set for me was to go back to work. And that’s really one of the big goals that I had for myself. But my biggest fear was sitting across the desk from somebody in an interview situation and them looking at my resume and saying, counting on their fingers, well, you know, gosh, Kevin, where have you been for the last seven years? So I found out that there was a person at Henrico Mental Health. At the time, they were called peer counselors. And I found out that there was an opportunity through the Virginia Department of Rehabilitative Services, where the Community Services Board at Henrico would basically send you to training at Piedmont Virginia Community College in Charlottesville. And the name of the program was the Virginia Human Services Training Centers Consumer Provider Training Program. That’s a mouthful.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Yeah, it is.

KEVIN KELLY: But anyway, they would send you to training, and all of your expenses were paid for. And I basically went to Charlottesville, Virginia for two semesters. And they actually paid for my apartment. And I interned at a psychosocial rehabilitative clubhouse in Charlottesville in the spring. I went back to class in the fall. I returned to Henrico Mental Health, did my internship there, got all of my training, and soon realized that the whole reason why I was going through this training was to be hired because I have a mental illness. What a concept. So I found out, like I said, that it was a wonderful opportunity to basically use my lived experience to help other people, which is really a personal goal that I’ve had for myself all along.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: That’s interesting. Okay, so disclosure, we all work together and have known each other for many years now. But I’ve never heard either of your stories, so as far as how you became peer specialists. So that was really interesting to me. I really liked learning both of those. Yeah. And how different has peer specialist training changed in the time, since Kevin did it and then when Heather and I did it. So I might want to pick your brain on that one day, Kevin, and just talk about that because that alone is kind of interesting, the process you went through.

KEVIN KELLY: You betcha. And it’s unfortunate because unfortunately, the funding for the program dried up. And I think, don’t quote me on this, but I think the last year was in 2010. And I graduated the program in 2008. But yeah, what a wonderful opportunity. What a truly wonderful opportunity. And I’m very thankful, truly blessed that I had the opportunity to do that.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Yeah, that’s very cool. Okay, so getting into, I guess, the group facilitation topic. Like I said, you both are Senior Recovery Education Facilitators for Mental Health America of Virginia. And could you give the audience some idea of what that looks like? What the job entails?

KEVIN KELLY: Sure. Heather, I’ll go first this time. What it looks like for me is I really do probably about four groups at Henrico Mental Health. Being a recovering alcoholic, I basically lead an AA group every Friday morning at Henrico Mental Health, so that’s one group that I do. I also am a certified WRAP facilitator, but amid COVID, the agency has decided that we’re not going to do any face-to-face RAP groups while we’re in COVID, so that’s the second group. One of the other groups that I co-facilitate, and I’m really pleased that it has morphed into a peer-led support group, and the name of that group is Recovery Among Friends. And it’s basically kind of a hybrid between a support group and an education group because depending upon the needs of the group, I kind of let the group decide how it’s going to play out. So there might be a week where a member, two members, three members are really struggling that particular week. So for the 90-minute time block that we’ve set aside for that particular session, it might be just a support group. Other people might have a good week and don’t really have a whole lot of issues, don’t really need a whole lot of support. So there’s plenty of time to introduce an educational component to the group. And what I mean by an educational component is just something that is recovery-focused, that a person can learn about.

For example, I just had Recovery Among Friends group last, I beg your pardon, was it yesterday? My week is all running together. It was yesterday, and the topic of the group was stressors and how those stressors affect the body. So it made for a very educational group. So that’s the third group that I do. And then the fourth group that I basically, and the staff liaison for, is a group called Art of Creative Expression. And that basically is a creative arts group, where it really goes beyond a group per se, and it really is a membership group. We have $4 monthly dues. We meet the first Tuesday of every month, and the money that’s collected basically goes to pay for the supplies that are associated with the group. But it’s really cool in that every member of the group makes a commitment to lead the group at least two times a year. And the activity can be anything with respect to creative arts. It can be drawing, it can be painting, it can be stained glass, it could be making a collage, could be working with clay. Really anything that falls within that parameter of creative arts, that’s really where we’re going with the group. So it’s a good mix of different groups. It keeps me really busy. I can tell you that right now.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Yeah, that sounds really interesting. Heather, what about you?

HEATHER FOSSEN: Well, group facilitation really looks different depending on where you are, your environment, and with me at the day programs, I would hold regular program meetings just to see what the members would like to talk about, what they would like to have their workshops on so that they were more engaged and wanting to learn. So with the workshop, we would have just a topic to go on, maybe a little presentation, but most of it was engagement and getting people to actively be involved in this learning process and actually apply these things to real life situations. What I liked about it is immediately afterwards, there was an avenue and just a place for people just to come to me, and I could offer one-on-one peer support, which in some cases is tough to do in group facilitation. So we have that from workshops, and then we also have webinars and trainings. So with webinars, we’re behind the screen and we’re giving our presentation, and we might get a little feedback from the group. Then we have a training and those are usually a happy day. So we have our topics. We have things that people are really excited to learn about, they’re really engaged, and I’ll just say I learned the most from the peers that we serve. It is just amazing what happens when we all get together and start talking. But yeah, every type of group facilitation looks different based on what environment you’re in.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: That’s a good point, because that really is the beauty of peer support, I think in the end is that mutuality and learning from each other. So this is more of a tougher question maybe to answer, but why do you think people resonate with you as facilitators? What is it about your style or personality or approach or whatever? That you might think resonates with people?

HEATHER FOSSEN: Well, I would say, I just bring my general energy to it and it’s completely natural. I just get excited about recovery and facilitating. I think what resonates most with everyone is the fact that we can make ourselves vulnerable, and we show that mutuality and we connect with that. When you can have that connection, you have magic.

KEVIN KELLY: Yeah. I just can tack on to what Heather just said. I think I have a true passion for recovery and people that have worked with me, people, peers that have received services from me, have given me feedback that they’ve told me that, gosh, you’re just so excited and I can see the passion that you have. The other thing is just having a true desire to be of service to other people. Every time I say that, I’m reminded of one of my favorite quotes that’s from Gandhi, and I think it says something to the effect of, the best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Yeah, I love all of those, the vulnerability and the passion. As being magnets, you draw people to people, draw people through those things. Yeah, I don’t know what I’m saying. Anyway. So let me ask you then, because I know you both have done some one-on-one support, along with the group’s facilitation. How do you feel like those differ? Do you need different skills to perform those different types of duties?

KEVIN KELLY: I think for me, it would require a different skill set than just doing peer support one-on-one. Only from the standpoint that when you’re doing peer support one-on-one, you’re making that direct connection with just one person. And as the group grows and say you get to a group of 10 people, it really becomes a challenge to have that skill set to be able to be a skilled facilitator that can sort of kind of, and Heather will get a chuckle out of this, to be that guide, to be that airplane pilot that is sort of kind of directing the group and being that traffic cop that is trying to lead the group in a certain direction and to bring out the best in the group members and those people that are genuinely, or generally, I guess I should say reserved, to sort of kind of challenge them to kind of step out of their comfort zone and to engage. And Heather’s a master at doing that. I’ve seen her do it virtually. I’ve seen her do it face to face. So she’s the master at that.

HEATHER FOSSEN: Thank you.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Well, that’s a good that leads me to a question, then, because like you mentioned, you know, making a connection one on one isn’t always easy, but there aren’t a lot of outside forces. But connecting with a group, I can imagine, has got to be a lot more difficult, you know, connecting with 10 different people versus just one. So how do you guys manage that?

KEVIN KELLY: Yeah, that’s interesting that you bring that up because I can think about the Recovery Among Friends group that I just told you all about a few minutes ago. And we have a core group of about 13 peers. And I’m really proud in that that group has been consistent in terms of participation. And I think it’s just, again, being that coach, being that cheerleader, being authentic, being real. And like Heather said, being vulnerable. And, you know, I get as much out of that group as I hope the peers that are in the group.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Heather, do you have anything to add to that?

HEATHER FOSSEN: No, I agree with Kevin. You know, during group facilitation, sometimes, you know, you think it would be hard to get that one on one. But in my experience, it’s actually been quite interesting because, you know, we’ll be speaking and the group participants actually band together. And it’s like them talking to us and them talking to each other. So it’s like peer support is just happening all over the place. And it’s just great to watch and to be part of that.

KEVIN KELLY: Absolutely. And I think Heather stole my thought a little bit in that it is so cool to see a peer come to like the first of a 12 session group. And over that 12 weeks, to see them grow and blossom and develop in their own recovery. I mean, you can’t put a price on that. I mean, that’s a big reason why I do what I do.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Yeah, I agree. That’s always, what do you call it? It’s even empowering to you. You know, it’s empowering to the peer and it’s empowering to the peer specialist as well.

KEVIN KELLY: Yep. I remember several years ago, I had a young lady that had gone through one of my WRAP groups. And that was a 12 week program. And after WRAP graduation, her mother pulled me aside and said, I don’t know what you did, but she is a brand new person. And just thanked me profusely for the impact that that WRAP group had made on her. So like I said, I mean, you can’t put a money value on that, but that was very rewarding in and of itself.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: So we’ve talked about some of the wonderful, empowering, exciting parts of being a group facilitator. But could you share some of the challenges that you might have faced? Like what type of roadblocks, maybe that someone who’s new to group facilitation may not be aware of, that you could give them some suggestions on what to be on the lookout for?

HEATHER FOSSEN: Oh, I know some potential roadblocks that I have faced in the past. The number one thing being funding. So, if you are somewhere and wanting to hold a training, a lot of times I was finding myself coming out of pocket, and there’s only so much I can do with that. Also, another roadblock I will have to admit would be myself. I question myself, and I kind of wonder, am I cut out for this? Am I doing this right? But then at the end of the group, I just look at everyone and they return. I know I’m doing something right.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Well, that’s a good point, though. There is an element of stage fright involved, and then when you, as a peer specialist, you’ve got lived experience. Part of my lived experience is some major social anxiety.

KEVIN KELLY: Me too.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: How have you learned to deal with that?

HEATHER FOSSEN: Well, for me, I actually started doing some meditation, and meditation initially was very hard for me, and I think a lot of the members that I worked with, meditation was hard for them too. Instead, I’ve developed a couple of breathing techniques, and I also use guided imagery. So basically, what I would do was just go to a place in my head, and spend time there, noticing every detail, every thing I could put there, and then I would start the breathing exercises, and have the group kind of get into a really relaxed state. And instead of having all these things running through their mind, I just ask for a blank screen, just a blank screen, and I will put all the visuals, everything you’ll hear, everything you’ll taste, everything you’ll touch into it. And I have had some really surprising responses to that. Some people that were never able to even sit down to meditate or coming to group. And there was one in particular I remember, it was the imagery session was taking place at my grandmother’s house, and we were sitting in front of the fire and eating the apple pie. And we finally returned back to the room, and a person said they could still taste the pie. And another participant was actually sweating because she was sitting too close to the fire. So I was just amazed. But yeah, I really developed a passion for that too. And I hope to continue that.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: That’s awesome. Kevin, how about you?

KEVIN KELLY: Yeah, some of the roadblocks were actually probably the biggest roadblock. And this is all before COVID was primarily centered around logistics and how the peer was going to get from, you know, their house, their apartment to the group. That was always the number one roadblock or the number one barrier, if you will. Thankfully, funding wasn’t ever an issue. I guess the second big roadblock would be time. And I only worked part-time with the agency, so it was making sure that I maintained a good balance between group facilitation and one-on-one peer support.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Yeah, that’s a good point. I hadn’t thought about all the different types of duties that you have, that you have to juggle on top of. You know, it’s not like you just get to breeze in and do the group and breeze out. Yeah, exactly.

KEVIN KELLY: It’s how do they get there and who’s taking them home.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Yeah. So since you both have many years of experience with group facilitation, how do you imagine it might change and grow over time? What type of developments do you see happening?

HEATHER FOSSEN: Well, from what I’ve seen, let’s just say starting out, I was seeing some things come out in person, you know, meetings or groups, conferences. And here we are today with webinars and trainings online, and all these support groups just popping up everywhere, Zoom meetings, all these things that could be done virtually, and all of these things that are actually being prepared in advance for when we’re ready to go back in person. So for the future, I just see this thing just taking off and running.

KEVIN KELLY: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more with Heather. I really see the future of group facilitation moving toward, you know, all of these different virtual platforms that are out there, whether it’s WebEx, whether it’s Google Duo, whether it’s Zoom. That has really opened up, you know, speaking for myself, huge opportunities to engage peers that otherwise wouldn’t engage. I guess maybe a potential challenge or roadblock would be those few instances where a peer doesn’t have a laptop and can’t join the group by video, or doesn’t have access to a cell phone that would enable them to just, you know, call in and participate by phone. Those instances happen from time to time. They don’t happen all the time. But, you know, like Heather said, I really see, you know, group facilitation especially really benefiting, if that’s the word to use, from COVID, and it’s really opened up huge opportunities to reach a lot of different people in a lot of different ways.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: And that’s a really good point, because I do think that might be one of the, you know, quote unquote, benefits, I guess, of the pandemic is that it encouraged a lot of people to go online with things that were normally held in person. And when you have that transportation challenge for in-person meetings, not to say that you don’t have the internet challenge for the virtual ones, but at least it gives people choices.
And we know in peer support, you know, choices, you know, having choices is always ideal. Sure.

KEVIN KELLY: And I really see, you know, those peers that, for example, might agree to join a group by phone. What I have found is that once they join by phone, they start becoming familiar with the process. They start becoming familiar with the fellow group members, and they kind of graduate from joining the group by phone to joining the group by video. And my personal hope is that when we’re able to meet face to face, that that’s the next step is you go from joining by phone to joining by video to finally joining face to face.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Yeah, that’s good. That gives them levels and a way to progress without having to jump in all at once. There’s nothing scarier than jumping into the deep end.

KEVIN KELLY: Absolutely.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: So for people that, for peer specialists out there or even aspiring peer specialists that are intrigued by the idea of group facilitation, do you guys have any advice that you would give to those just starting out?

HEATHER FOSSEN: Oh, I would love to just make it short and sweet for you. Be prepared, believe in yourself, and make it an experience. That may sound like a tall order, but really, it comes naturally.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Okay, Kevin, how about you?

KEVIN KELLY: I would say be a sponge. Be a sponge. Try to soak up as much as you can. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Enjoy the process. Probably one big thing for me is going straight to the source if you have a question. For example, if you have a question about, will these hours count toward my certification? Anything with respect to certification, go straight to the Virginia Certification Board. Don’t go to a friend that heard it from a friend who heard it from another friend. because in my personal opinion, there’s a lot of misinformation that’s floating around, and people end up getting frustrated because they’re marching to the beat of a drum beat that someone else told them about, rather than going straight to the source and getting the information from the source. Taking that a step further is learning who those resources are. Learning that there is a website, vacertboard.org, where you can go. Knowing about Mary McGowan and going to the DBHDS website and going to her as a resource. I mean, those are the people that have the answers to the question. So go straight to the source.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: And this is kind of on topic, kind of off topic, but I know you guys have already talked a lot about kind of the your method of facilitation and how you make connections. But what about like the technical details of group facilitation? just like you mentioned before, the logistics. How can people learn more about that?

KEVIN KELLY: Funny that you should ask because we, I think we just completed our second MHAV group facilitation skills training and we talk a lot about in-person facilitation versus group facilitation. Some of the technical real world challenges that we face from time to time. I mean, they can run the gamut between the light bulb in the projector burning out or not having an extension cord or not having a laptop fully charged. You know, those are things that, God forbid, have raised their ugly head from time to time. They don’t happen all the time. But, you know, those are just some of the real world technical challenges that, you know, you have to be prepared for. And it’s like anything else in life. I mean, you just sort of kind of learn as you go.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Well, and it’s got to be a little unnerving the first time it happens to you.

KEVIN KELLY: Oh, absolutely.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: When, you know, and if you’re someone prone to anxiety, you know, there’s, I know that was my greatest fear the first time I ever facilitated was, you know, something goes wrong and, you know, as the facilitator, I don’t want to be the one spiraling out of control, you know. So, Heather, how do you usually handle situations like that? You’re the master, obviously, of meditation and guided imagery. So, what’s your suggestion for that?

HEATHER FOSSEN: Well, I have had some experiences. I just basically stop where I’m at, take a deep breath, and try and figure out in my little head how many different ways I can do to fix this. One example would be, in the beginning of my training, I was doing activity on bilateral movement, and it was my first one I had done virtually. So when I had shifted my screen so that I could stand up, I had completely disconnected the computer and was out of the training, and could not get the computer to start back up. So I think we nicknamed that one the bilateral bust.

KEVIN KELLY: I remember that.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: So any final recommendations or advice or final thoughts that you would like to share with the audience?

KEVIN KELLY: I think this is a great time to get involved with peer support. I mean, it’s a relatively new concept. There’s so much opportunity out there, and what a wonderful opportunity to get into a field where you are helping you help other people, and you’re getting paid for it.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: Do you guys have any resources that you would like to share with the group?

KEVIN KELLY: Well, I think I mentioned one earlier, and that is vacertboard.org. That is the website for the Virginia Certification Board. dbhds.org is another website that I think is a good resource. mhav.org is another fantastic resource. Go to the website. VPRSN, the Virginia Peer Recovery Specialist Network is another great website, another great resource that actually has a specific section specifically devoted to how do you even get started in this process.

HEATHER FOSSEN: You know, and I did notice before training peer recovery specialists that the market for jobs, you know, since this was a new concept, there weren’t many peer positions open. They started, you know, gaining traction, and so I felt comfortable in training other peers. And then it just seemed like we couldn’t find anything for a while. And it’s really, really inspiring to see the VPRSN job board and to have all the Recovery Blast job positions come up. I don’t know about you guys, but I get about six emails a day, notifications everywhere, very particular in what they want and what they expect. And it looks like these peers are well trained and ready to go.

DANIELLE DONALDSON: You’re right about that. The profession is definitely growing and exploding here in Virginia, and it’s very exciting to see. Well, I want to thank you both, Heather and Kevin, for what you do and for joining me today. And thank you for listening to the Peer Into Recovery podcast brought to you by the Virginia Peer Recovery Specialist Network and Mental Health America of Virginia. If you like our show and would like to subscribe to the podcast, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org. And please leave us a review on iTunes. Take good care of yourselves.