CHRIS NEWCOMB: Welcome to Peer Into Recovery, a podcast with the focus on the profession of peer support. For more information about how to subscribe, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org. Hey, everybody, this is Chris Newcomb. I’m your host. Welcome to another edition of Peer Into Recovery podcast. So glad you decided to listen because we have a great conversation today.

Our guest is Chris Alderman, who comes to us from Pulaski, Virginia over in Region 3. A little side note, I went to Radford University, so shout out there. I know Pulaski pretty well. He is working right now as a CPRS and actually a registered CPRS program manager for Virginia Harm Reduction Coalition. He’s also certified in ACES, which is A-C-E-S, which is Adverse Childhood Experiences, and just recently was certified to do rapid HIV testing with folks who are concerned about that issue. And now is down to 20 minutes to find that out. And it used to be a lot longer than that. So that’s amazing. So Chris, thanks so much for joining us. How are you doing today?

CHRIS ALDERMAN: I’m good, man. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You’re welcome. You’re welcome. So let’s get right into it. Help us to know a little bit about you as far as when, you know, where you’re from and a little bit about your growing up years and leading into peer services.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: Okay. Yeah, I was, I was actually, I was born in Roanoke and raised in Floyd County. You know, I was, I was adopted at age two. So, you know, that that’s kind of where it all started, but I didn’t find that out till later on. But yes, I was adopted, raised in Floyd. You know, I was raised in a pretty rigid and strict home. So, you know, I, I spent most of my time as a kid in my head and on because I never really connected to the people that adopted me. And I never really connected to any kind of anywhere. You know what I mean? Like any kind of small town type stuff, like I didn’t play basketball like I probably should have. You know, I’m six foot six. Most people, that’s usually the first question is, did you play basketball?

CHRIS NEWCOMB: I get the same question. I’m six, four and a half. I don’t play basketball. So I feel you there, man.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: Yeah, no, I mean, it’s not that I wouldn’t love to, you know what I mean? But again, it goes back to some stuff that I learned about myself is that, you know, I was never given a chance. You know, nobody took the time to show me or help me to, to learn to be that. And I tried to do it on my own and didn’t know how, you know what I mean? Just like a lot of things in my life. And so my early childhood was, you know, in and out of foster care before too, then adopted it to a home that was, you know, rigid, strict, kind of, you know, Southwest Virginia type home.

It started for me around eight years old. It’s the first time I remember actually wanting to die or not want to be here anymore. And I just hated the way I looked. I just hated everything about myself. I was getting bullied quite a bit. And, you know, I just didn’t know at that point, I didn’t know what love was, you know, I didn’t feel that I just never had that like family kind of relationship, that support connected, whatever. It never felt that way anyway. I mean, we had it in theory, you know what I mean? But it just didn’t feel that way. And so, you know, that my whole school life was just hard, man. It was so hard all the time to struggle with academics, struggle with identity, struggle with trying to fit in.

And I just never could figure it out, man. And so, you know, at 15, I started smoking weed, which, you know, I absolutely loved it. You know, the first time I smoked, I just like, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. And, you know, so I found some people that I kind of fit in with, and, you know, we would hang out, smoke weed. But most of the time I smoke by myself. You know, I’ve always been by myself. And so, you know, that carried on, you know, smoking and drinking at parties once in a while. A couple of suicide attempts here and there, you know. And, you know, I did do some self-injurious stuff. I used to burn myself. I wasn’t really a cutter.

The cool part about all of it was, is like, it was all documented, you know what I mean? Like my adoption when I was in foster care, they did little evaluations and stuff, my behavior, so I have all that documented. I had psychiatric evaluation when I was 11 and got diagnosed with oppression and I was at the defiance disorder. And, you know, arrest records when I got arrested for breaking into people’s house, like I’ve got all this whole like this line of stuff that just all adds up, you know, when I actually done the work to do it. And, you know, I started doing the quote unquote heavy drugs at 22. You know, the first time I smoked crack was 22 and then just the next four years of my life was drugs every single day. You know what I mean? Like just every day.

When I went to treatment in 2004, I got arrested for stealing some jewelry and got put on probation. My PO, he was pretty hardcore. He was like, you got 30 days to piss clean or you’re going to go to jail for a couple of years. And I just couldn’t do it and I tried, but I just could not stay clean to save my life. So I ended up going to treatment and treatment went well for the most part. I started going to 12 step meetings and doing the groups and stuff. And I went to see an individual counselor and that’s when it all just kind of, you know, my whole recovery started on a lot, man. And that was a hard thing to swallow at, you know, in 2020 when things kind of went downhill for me big time.

But, you know, when I was in treatment, I went to see the counselor and basically I was told that, you know, based on your behaviors and based on what you’re doing in your history, there had to have been some sexual abuse there somewhere. Let’s talk about it. And I was like, I’ve never been sexually abused in my life and I haven’t. And, you know, I realized that that wasn’t getting me anywhere. So I just made up a couple of stories about being sexually abused. And then here came all the, oh, you’re so brave and thank you for being vulnerable. And, you know, now you can move on with your recovery and you’ll probably be able to stay clean now because you’ve opened up about this.

But the thing was, it never happened. And that became my story for the next 16 years, part of my story. That and I told that I started using drugs at 13 because for some reason, my mind, my story wasn’t bad enough to fit in with the with the recovery folks, man, or the, you know, the fellowships. And so I had to make my story just bad enough to fit in. You know what I mean? And so, you know, man, 16 years of that, just, you know, I told it so much, it became the truth for me. You know what I mean? And, you know, I knew in the back of my mind, you know, that I always knew this isn’t really who I am. You know what I mean? Like, I am not this person. Like, I haven’t wanted to use drugs since I left that life in 2004.

And when I say that, you know, because the people that know me and some people are going to listen to this, oh, well, he’s still smoking weed. I’ve actually heard people say that about me. Cannabis is part of my life now, you know what I mean? And that’s hard for some people to understand. Well, you’re just substituting. You’re doing this, you’re doing that. Do your research, you know what I mean? And the main thing is, is that we’re all different. And different things work for different people. I’ve tried certain approaches that work for me. In the end, in 2019, 20, 21, I was depressed those whole three years.

I did start, you know, I started 401 Peer Center in Radford, which is really good. It was like the major milestone of my career. You know what I mean? I was married, had some kids, you know, between, you know, we had like six kids all together. It was a beautiful life, you know what I mean? I did have an affair and lost every single bit of it. No drugs involved. You know what I mean? I didn’t do drugs. It was just unhealed parts of me still causing pain for myself and other people. And I couldn’t understand why, because I’d always been told was the disease of addiction. That’s why you’re a womanizer, is because you’re still using women like you use drugs. And I believe that, like at that time, that made sense to me.

But that’s not why.It goes much deeper than that for me. And so I had to look at that, because when, you know, in the end, when I wanted to kill myself every day, and, you know, I actually ended up buying a weapon to do it. Like I bought it, but the intent, this is what I’m going to do. And I just didn’t know when yet. And when I did that, I was just like, why do I feel this way? Like I’m done everything they’ve told me. You know what I mean? Like I’m staying while I still want to die every day. And so that’s when, you know, I’ve been on psychiatric meds for a while, and I went to my psychiatrist and my doctor and I’m like, I’m done. I’m not taking these meds anymore. Like it messes with me. I still want to die every day.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: What’s that whole thing of the law of diminishing returns? It’s like which symptom gets treated and which one comes up.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: Exactly. And I just told them I’m done. And I wanted to, at this point, I think I’d started working, you know, I was working at a farm, doing farm work, and they did, you know, CBD and stuff. And, you know, we were a lot of hemp and made CBD gullies and stuff. So I started eating CBD and I was talking to my doctor. And, you know, again, some people say, well, it progressively got, you know, I went from CBD to actual THC. And some people say, well, you just progressed, you know, your disease progressed. What actually happened is that my entire life and perspective and everything changed about who I am. But I had to do work along with it. It’s not like anything’s a magic fix. You know what I mean? Nothing’s going to fix everything. You know, it made me not want to kill myself. And that’s the first thing I wanted was to not die every day.

Again, man, I did that. I did shadow work therapy, which shadow work therapy is not traditional therapy. It’s not one sitting in a counselor’s office and pouring out your feelings and trying to work on a growth plan or any kind of plan for your life. It’s actually looking at all the dark parts of your life and yourself and your experiences. That’s what it was for me. And, you know, there was psychedelics involved with that. And, you know, it’s all these things that I did and I had to do, man, was all because I was sick of not being who I really was anymore. I knew that that’s where it started, that I’ve always had to sacrifice who I am to maintain a relationship to a woman, to a job, to family, to drugs. I’ve always had to be something else for somebody. I was done.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah, you’re like this, okay, I’m done. It sounds like you’re just like maybe like laying the gauntlet down against life going, you got to have something else because this is too much.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: So, you know, I always had to try to fit in, you know, I always had to try to sacrifice who I am to fit in with, whether it be a woman, a job, the drugs, you know, a program, anything. I never, in my mind, in that little voice inside of me that nobody else hears with me, I was like, this is not who I am. I’m not an addict. You know what I mean? I’m not going to, I’m not going to label myself an addict for the rest of my life based on four years of drug use. That’s the same to me. Like that’s, I did it for 16 years, yes. But that doesn’t work for me anymore, man, because I know I’m more than that. You know what I mean? The drugs didn’t define me, or neither does recovery. You know what I mean?

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Sure. Well, people were complex creatures. It sounds like from your story, when you’re two years old, life starts swinging at you pretty hard, and life has been swinging at you for years. But here’s the cool part, as you’ve been swinging back. You’ve been swinging back even in the bullying and the school stuff, and then the struggling with the, do I really want to stick around, or am I just ready to check out? And those are really difficult situations to deal with. You still stuck and stayed, and you’re still here, which is a testament to your resilience. Kind of that whole, it’s cliche sounding, but it’s that whole Phoenix from the Ashes kind of thing. And you and I were talking before we came on the air about, when you started getting the shadow work, you mentioned a doctor and author who really opened up some stuff. Tell us a little bit about that.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: Dr. Gabor Mate, he is an author. He’s a trauma expert. And he’s actually, he was an infant in the Nazi camps. Like, he’s got a hell of a story himself. Yeah, so it was wild. So I started, you know, when I started doing the shadow work therapy and I started looking at my own trauma and started looking at the healing process for that, like I came across him and I just started watching his videos. And then I got a book and started reading it. And it is The Realm of Hungry Ghosts.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: It’s a great title.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: His stuff was all about childhood trauma, like addiction stems from the root trauma, whatever it was, you know, for some people, it may be sexual or physical abuse. For some people, maybe abandonment, which was mine. For some people, maybe I wasn’t allowed to feel, you know what I mean? I wasn’t allowed to cry. Real men don’t cry. You know, that’s traumatic for some people. You know, I just started looking at all that stuff and then I was able to get on stage with him in front of like 1500 people, man. And I was able to actually feel and receive love for the first time like 43 years, man. Like, it was huge. And everything just made sense in that moment. It was like, this is what I’ve been looking for my entire life. You know what I mean? And it wasn’t like no burning bush moment or anything. Like it just all made sense up here.

And so then I was able to start the process of connecting my mind and my body because I’ve never done that before. It was always, I would try to think my way out of things or try to feel my way into things, but I can never do them both at the same time. You know what I mean? It is, man. It is. It’s, you know, these days, I mean, now I can pay attention to my body and I can tell you exactly what’s going on with me. You know what I mean? Like even down like my stomach issues or if I have a headache, most of the time I know why. Yeah, the past, since 2020 or 2021 is when it really started for me. You know, that’s, I’m telling you, man, like I know that different programs work for different people, man. You know what I mean?

Like I’m not ever on any platform trying to blast or disrespect any fellowship of any kind. But what I do know for me personally is that in the last three years, I’ve learned more about myself and my place in this world than I ever did in the 16 years I was trying to work a program. You know what I mean? And all I needed to do was just be allowed to be who I am. And in order to do that, I had to lose a shitload of people that I cared about, man. And I’m talking about reliving abandonment trauma all over again. And you know, it was so, so hard and it still is some days. You know what I mean? It’s so hard some days because I don’t, you know, dude, I’ve burned a lot of bridges. I don’t have any friends, you know, because a lot of people in the recovery community, once you do stuff like I’ve done, like the cannabis thing or the LSD thing, well, I can’t talk to you anymore, man. Like new associations, people who are not using found a new way to live.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah, they’re showing you.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: Well, you know, I found a new way to live. We don’t know till we know. I didn’t know why I was doing those things. I didn’t know why I was a cheater and a womanizer. You know what I mean? I didn’t know.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Sure. Yeah, I just, it’s funny you say that because this is not a self-blog, but if you decide listeners to go to Virginia Peer Specialist network.org, I write a blog for that and I just wrote the title of the blog is, You Know When You Know, which is usually kind of a romantic thing like, oh, you see her and you know when you know. And that may be true, but I went exactly what you’re talking about is, you don’t know what you don’t know. And as GI Joe said, knowing is half the battle because you can’t change what you don’t know. Just to comment really quickly on you talked about allowing yourself to be you. I’m a singer songwriter and I once wrote a song called, I Gotta Be Me. And the whole idea of that song was really just me writing to myself. I write songs for people to hear, but I also write them just for myself. And for that particular song, it was just me saying, you know what, I gotta be me, period. That’s it. As I am. If people like it, cool. If you don’t, respectfully, there’s the door until either you do or peacefully peace out because I’m not going to give up who I am to be accepted by someone else’s standard of what I should or shouldn’t be. And it’s, you know, try to do that with grace and respect, you know, to someone that, you know, there’s just not a not a synergy there.

Um, and a friend of mine, the song really touched her for whatever reason. And she has a couple of tattoos, which you have cool tattoos, by the way. And she says to me one day, I got a new tattoo. So what’d you get? She’s like, I got, I got a title of your song. I’m like, I’m like, what? I’m like, that happens to the Rolling Stones. What are you talking about? And so she got, I gotta be me, tattooed on her ankle, which as a songwriter is absolutely humbling and very cool. It was that, that exact idea that you just said, which is coming to a place in your life where you go, you know what? I am me. I’m going to be me. I’m going to be who I’ve always been if I have not been connected in that way. And that’s going to be the deal. And so my guess is when that happened, that starts moving you forward in your recovery.

And then you get into the harm reduction thing. Because what you’re talking about was you going through this transition of how do I reduce harm to myself that maybe I’m doing that I’m not trying to do because of what’s happened and you get the knowledge of the shadow work. And then you move into the professional part with doing the harm reduction thing. Tell us about that harm reduction work you’re doing because it’s really, really important.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: Yeah, I mean, harm reduction is a whole different animal. You know what I mean? It’s been around for a while. It’s not a new thing, but it’s definitely gaining momentum. And what I do in harm reduction for my job is we do the typical, what people know harm reduction to be, which is syringes. You know what I mean? We give out clean syringes. And what we do that is such a small piece of what we do. Like, ultimately, the syringes are a way to get people to come and connect because we do things such as case management.

We have case management that can help resources for housing, food. We test for HIV, hep C. We’ve got good resources for that stuff. We give out smoking kits, stoning kits to help reduce people from wanting to shoot up. You know, personal hygiene stuff. We do so many things, man. But ultimately, harm reduction is just about love, man. It’s really about love and compassion. Like, there’s nobody on this planet that can justify helping someone to feel better in the moment, no matter what it is. And people can’t wrap their head around, you know, the drug piece of it. But again, like we’ve already talked about, this isn’t about the drugs. You know, these people are using substances because it’s a way for them to stay alive and stay safe.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Right.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: Yeah.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Avoiding the hard part of addiction withdrawal, which can kill you.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, the hard part is for people, you know, especially people who’ve been working in recovery or know about recovery or know how this thing is, it’s hard for them to understand how this is not enabling. You know what I mean? How are you not enabling this person by giving them smoking supplies and snorting supplies and syringes and condoms? Well, condoms aren’t a big deal anymore. We understand the importance of harm reduction condoms. You know what I mean? But, you know, all these other things, people can’t wrap their mind around it. Well, here’s the not so secret information. People are going to use drugs regardless. So why not help them stay safe and alive? You know what I mean? Like, what’s so hard about understanding? These are shit bands, man. You know? Absolutely.

And that’s really what it’s about is, you know, the connection piece, because people come and see us, man, and we may be the only, like, non-judgmental place that they come to that day. You know what I mean? Where we just accept and love them for exactly who they are, not where they’re at in their lives or what they choose to do with their life. None of that really matters. In the end, you know, everybody has a story. We don’t know that story, unless we take the time to listen. And all of these people, man, that are using drugs, that are overeating, that are cheating on their spouses and destroying their families, that are overexercising, that are working themselves to death, man, all these folks have one thing in common. They’re doing something to help relieve that pain of something. You know what I mean? It all goes back to trauma, man, and people, you know, I don’t know why it’s taking us this long to understand that when we look at trauma and the effects that it has on our lives, man, you can’t deny it, you know what I mean? Like, it’s all the way down to physical health, you know, epigenetics, it’s finally starting to make sense to people, you know?

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Well, yeah, exactly what you just said is everybody, I really believe and have experienced in my own life, everybody wants to be loved. They want to be connected and they want to be accepted for who they are, wherever they are, whenever they are. And so with that in recovery, people may not agree with a certain behavior people do, but that does not reduce the dignity and basic respect and love and compassion that any person deserves on the planet at any point. You know, that includes anybody who’s done really horrific things or not so horrific things, because at the end of the day, what you just said, we are all human beings. And we all have some brokenness in our life. And some folks like the really positive psychology people will be like, no, not at all. And like, I’m not promoting that we’re broken. But if you’ve lived in this world, at some point, life can be sharp. It has edges and it will leave marks. Even if you try to really live healthy, sometimes that happens. But when you have someone who’s willing to give love and compassion, and you have someone who’s willing to speak a positive word into someone’s life, it can change the course of their life forever.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’ve had it forever. I mean, seat belts are harm reduction. You remember, I don’t, you probably remember how much trouble that was when people started to have to wear their seat belt because it was a state law now or federal law. I don’t know if that’s harm reduction. You know what I mean? There’s so, we’ve been implementing harm reduction for a very long time. It’s just, this is such a sensitive subject for so many people, man. We’ve been taught for so long that abstinence is the only way that we’re going to get better. You know what I mean? If you can’t do any drugs or you know what I’m saying, it’s just a process of stopping using. That’s just not the case for everybody, man. I think part of what we’ve done is just put everybody in a box, it’s not going to work anymore.

I think COVID brought that out of people with like, you know, yeah, yeah, so yeah, man, I mean, and as far as peer support and harm reduction, I mean, you know, it’s a tough one with that one. You know, I’ll be honest with you, I don’t get to do a lot of peer support these days, other than just in genuine general conversation, it might come up that, you know, yes, I’ve been homeless before, yes, I’ve done drugs before, whatever. But more than that, we’re just talking about life, man. You know what I mean? It’s really hard for people new in recovery to work in harm reduction. I’ll just put it like that because it’s literally vicarious trauma five days a week. You know what I mean? You get close to people and they die. You know what I mean? Or you don’t see them and you don’t know what happened to them or where they’re at. And then you’ve got obviously the other kind of triggers, if that’s what you want to call them, of seeing syringes everywhere and glass pipes. And so there’s a lot of risk involved in working in harm reduction as a peer, but it can be done. Self-care is vital with it. I mean, you’ve got to take care of yourself, any of this stuff.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So this work that you’re doing with harm reduction is great. What is the one thing that is most rewarding for you in the work of harm reduction?

CHRIS ALDERMAN: You know, professionally, it’s the, you know, get to connect with people and both the people who are that we serve and the people in the community who support and understand what we’re doing. Just because it’s so comforting to know that people understand harm reduction and what it’s all about, which is love, compassion, all those things. You know, on a personal level, you know, for me, it’s been the most humbling work I’ve ever done. Only because, you know, things that I used to think were so important, like, you know, superficial things, man, like iPhones and Dodge chargers and nice clothes and stuff, man. Like, you know, working in harm reduction has taught me that none of that stuff is really important, man.

And I think when it happened is when I just, you know, we give people supplies and stuff and like, I gave this dude a bag of stuff that was donated. It had like a bag of chips and, you know, some socks in it, chapstick, random stuff. And the dude literally was holding back tears because he, you know, got this stuff and I’m just like, man, you know, and it took stuff like that. And, you know, just the, you know, knowing that there’s people out there, you know, that, that are sleeping outside and not because they want to, you know, I mean, some people are not saying that all houseless people don’t want to you know, some people want to live that life and that’s cool.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Sure.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: But there’s a lot of people out there that don’t and those are the ones that I connect with, you know what I mean? I connect with all people who are treated less than, you know what I mean? That goes back to my own history. So I get it. I get them, you know.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Man, I could just keep talking for a long time. I really enjoy talking with you and I hope our listeners have enjoyed this. So thank you, Chris, for being on the program. Really appreciate that.

CHRIS ALDERMAN: I know you’re good, man. I appreciate it.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: I’d like to thank our listeners for listening to the Peer Into Recovery podcast, which is brought to you by the Virginia Peer Recovery Specialist Network and Mental Health America of Virginia. And if you like our show and would like to subscribe to the podcast, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org. And please leave us a brief review on iTunes. In the meantime, please take care of yourselves, everyone. We’ll see you soon.