CHRIS NEWCOMB: Welcome to Peer Into Recovery, a podcast with a focus on the profession of peer support. For more information about how to subscribe, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org. Hey everybody, welcome to another edition of Peer Into Recovery podcast. I’m your host, Chris Newcomb.

Today we have a great guest, Elizabeth Sluder. She comes to us from Warsaw, Virginia, and she serves as the Peer Coordinator for the Warsaw Recovery Support Center at the Northern Neck Middle Peninsula Community Service Board. She has lots of school pride for two schools. She has a Bachelor’s of Applied Science at East Tennessee State University in Speech and Leadership Communication, as well as a Master’s of Education at george Washington University as an Education Transition Specialist. And she’s doing the whoop whoop raising of the palm to the air. I don’t know exactly what that’s called, but it’s excitement. So if you want to join us at home, just raise them up, give it up for East Tennessee and george Washington University. Hey Elizabeth, how are you doing today?

ELIZABETH SLUDER: I’m great. Good to see you.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: It’s good to see you. Thank you for coming on the show.

ELIZABETH SLUDER: Thanks.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So let’s get to it. Tell us a little bit about your story of origin, where you came from, and how you got into Peer Recovery Services and let us get to know you a little better.

ELIZABETH SLUDER: All right. Thanks. First of all, thanks for inviting me again, and I think you have a really cool job. Oh, thank you. Back when I was at East Tennessee State, I remember doing radio or TV lab, and that was my easy A. Ah.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Those of you listening who don’t see the behind the scenes, it’s kind of funny that Elizabeth said that with the easy A because I just redid the intro about five times before we got to this point.

ELIZABETH SLUDER: That was back in the day when you did the little promos and queued things up.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Oh, yeah.

ELIZABETH SLUDER: Oh, it was kind of cool. It was like six o’clock in the morning until nine. So I remember just doing a lot of cool stuff like that. But I thought in the back of my mind, would I really like to do something like that? And then I thought about being a weather girl, of course. I just didn’t know it was in speech leadership communications. And that in itself, I was just curious, okay, what am I going to do with this degree? And I was pretty much just kind of goal oriented type person. I liked sports a whole lot. I was a runner for years for East Tennessee State as an indoor, outdoor and cross country runner all four years.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Wow. I’m out of breath hearing it.

ELIZABETH SLUDER: And so I stayed in shape pretty well and traveled around with the team. And I don’t even know how I did it, but all I was trying to do was just pretty much figure out, what am I going to transition to anyway? My sobriety date is 2001. I got sober in Asheville, which is where I am right now in Asheville, North Carolina. I ended up having two beautiful children. They’re grown now. But they all grew up knowing after I got sober back in Asheville, I was trying to break the cycle pretty much. I just look at it as I’ve been one of the lucky ones knowing the statistics. And so just being a sobriety alone, that just told me what I was. I was finally living up a little bit to my potential. And that was kind of cool because I got in a little bit late for teaching. Started at 40. I was doing good to last in this day and age for 10 years. I’ll be honest with you. It’s kind of like I was glad I got out while I was ahead. I got the master’s. I got 89% scholarship from George Washington University. I owed back five years of service. I actually lucked out helping people transition with mental health or substance use disorder. Pretty much fell into my lap because I was going to a place called 84 Main, which is in Warsaw. And now there is an 84 Main East in Gloucester. We renamed 84 Main in Warsaw the Warsaw Recovery Support Center. We’ve had a recovery fest. This will be our fourth year. We would invite our representatives, our congressmen from the Northern Neck would come. We have Commonwealth attorneys, people from other recovery centers. They would like to come and talk, or people just like to tell their story. I love to have horses for horse rides because I’m an Equine Specialist in Mental Health.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah. We were talking in the beginning before we came on to record about a special training that you have that’s really cool, is Equine Therapy. Tell us how that happened, how you got connected with Mr. Ed.

ELIZABETH SLUDER: Well, believe it or not, it just started with early recovery. When I was just trying to start over in my life and try to figure out, what am I going to do? I did go back to work, but I was working for my father, and I was pretty much just starting over again. When you’re stressed out, you’re trying to figure things out a little bit. I ran across a brochure through a friend that was in one of the rooms of AA when I was in Asheville, North Carolina. He showed me this brochure that his girlfriend had. It was about equine therapy. I went down and just wanted to discover a little bit more about that. Because all I kept thinking was, well, this sounds a little bit relaxing. Outside, even being in a barn, scooping up things like, just seemed like it was just a little bit not too taxing to me. But on the brochure, it read, you either have to be a counselor or a teacher. Well, I was neither one of those at the time. I did have a college degree. So that made me think, wow, I’d just like to just be a volunteer. If I could just do that. But somewhere in my mind, I kept thinking, well, that would be cool.

Well, fast forward down, say about 15 years into recovery. I’m a coordinator of a resource center, which was called 84 Main at the time. Now it is called the Warsaw Recovery Support Center. We were coming up with activities, and one of the people that was coming to the center was interested in horses. So I just thought, okay, let’s do some research on that. So we went to a place called Dream Catchers in Williamsburg, and they are PATH certified, which is P-A-T-H, Professional Association for Therapeutic Horsemanship. And I brought a group down there, and they had a workshop available for called Equine Specialist. So when I came from Asheville back up to this area, I also became a special educator teacher. So I became certified with the state as a licensed teacher. Then all of that experience equated to more areas that could expand as far as being a qualified mental health professional, QMHP. So I thought, wow, you know what? I am a teacher and a mental health professional, but that isn’t really even a requirement really anymore. So that was what was really interesting.

So it started out as a grassroots thing for mainly counselors and teachers. And then it’s just the possibilities, because I’ve been in recovery so long, just opened up because I was just doing the next right thing and trying to get my life back on track. But just now working at the Recovery Center as a coordinator, I took a group, took the workshop and it was a lot of people from all over the country. I was really surprised there was somebody from California. You have to go through a little obstacle course and everything. Granted, I’ll tell you the honest truth. I love horses, but I did not have my own horse. I did not grow up around horses. I was just athletic and one of those teenagers that was used to being around them, or who had friends that had horses, like if I was in Texas, I would just get on the horse. It was no big deal. Maybe that built up a little confidence, but other than that, no formal training.

What was really neat about this work was that it’s mainly groundwork. Even though I wouldn’t mind being on a horse, but you’re mainly focused on the horse. I took the course, which was in a class, then you have to do, there’s a couple of panelists from Florida, they came up and they had all the experience, and they observe you, and then it’s like a pass-fail type thing, where you go halter the horse and bring them out of the barn. They did not tell me that I had to halter the horse That means put the halter on the horse so that you can have the reins on, and I panicked a little bit. I thought I was just leading the horse. And so I spent the night in Williamsburg the night before, and I watched YouTube videos, believe it or not, and learned how to quickly halter a horse. And just sheer will, if you guys are ill though in recovery, when you set your mind on something, mostly you can do it. And when I showed up that morning, I actually told the director at Dream Catchers, you guys did not tell me that I had to halter the horse. And she saw a teeny little rocking horse on the front of the porch, showed me very quickly how to do it. And I said, I watched the videos and everything. And then when it came time for my turn to halter the horse, I just changed automatically and walked into that barn and acted like I knew exactly what I was doing. And actually, halted the horse, flipped it over, glided on beautifully, looked both ways through the barn with the door, made sure everything was safe, and went forward like I was really in charge.

And that is the beauty about Equine Therapy, is that it builds your confidence that you cannot fool the horse. The horse already knows you have to leave that baggage behind. And that is one of the things, and even combining what I know as a special educator, I mean, I can write lesson plans, I can team up with the therapist, I can do all these things. But actually doing the groundwork is so satisfying, and leading the horse into the arena, going through the obstacle courses, backing it up, turning it around, and I passed. I passed. There were some people that did not pass, and I felt so bad. But I’m just saying that I keep up a lot of my training throughout the area, but I volunteered for two years at Dream Catchers, and I did a lot of horse leading, sidewalking.

Sidewalking is when the person, you are mainly focused on the person on the horse that is having the therapy, and you’re holding their leg and their thigh, and you’re just making sure that they’re safe. You’re walking along the horse on the side. And the horse leader usually goes and gets the horse and the equipment, everything that’s needed for that particular horse. So I got to learn a lot about all different kinds of horses and different saddles and equipment. And that was really good. It’s so organized that you couldn’t mess up there. Now, down the road, I did learn how to just go in a regular place where people weren’t as organized. And I think I learned just as good that way. So it’s good to mix it up. When, so that person who lives outside of Warsaw or Tappahannock, she trains a lot of students from local Pisco school, St. Margaret’s, and they’re doing a lot of English writing. And she has Western as well. I would just go there and volunteer a lot.

And also it’s just like skiing or anything else or swimming. You can never have enough swimming or skiing lessons. You’ve got to keep it up. And so I would, I wanted to volunteer at fairs and at recovery fest. As I mentioned before, we had people that would get on the horses and ride, and that was a lot of fun. So just doing a lot of groundwork and being in that environment is beneficial overall for people in recovery. And there’s many different for better, for veterans or for building self-confidence, all ages. So there’s a lot of centers now they’re having or needing Equine Specialist. But I am certified with PATH, which is the professional association for therapeutic horsemanship. So I have to keep up the certification every year.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You find that you had, that you got value for yourself with recovery, being involved in that.

ELIZABETH SLUDER: Well, for me personally, that empowered me when I went through the training, building more self-confidence as I go on that, or just a dream I had just because I’m in recovery. Although I didn’t think it would be possible. But then I learned throughout my recovery, what all I’ve been doing with teaching and license, just all the little things along the way that, as they say, recovery is possible, all your little dreams are possible. So it doesn’t mean I have to always think you’ve got to be an expert. Well, here I am learning from really the ground up and constantly learning. Also, when we have our Recovery Fest, September the 16th, it is. It will be available as far as being able to ride a horse or pet the horse, or just grooming it is very soothing.

And it’s also fun to show what to expect while they are doing these things, and noticing the energy between the horse and the peer, and maybe teaching a little bit about what to notice, or as Equine Specialist, what you would notice with the ears as they go back, or the eyes. There’s a lot to notice. The ears, if they’re laid back a little bit, if they’re pointed straight up, that’s a little more of a caution. But there’s something about the eyes that you have to train your eyes to see. That would be more with the Equine Specialist. If it’s kind of calm cave with their eyes, if it’s kind of bubbling, a bubbling look, that can be a little bit of a concern sometimes. Just to keep an eye out for subtle things and just certain types of movements like that. There is just so much to learn about it. And the more I’m also around others that have been around their whole lives, the more you keep learning all the time. There’s a lot of things I constantly have to keep practicing all the time.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Growing up when I was on horses, I remember that one horse’s name was Red, and he had kind of a reddish brown coat, and he was very chill. I remember that. Horses are fascinating because they’re massive creatures. They’re not small. They weigh a lot.

ELIZABETH SLUDER: Right. And it’s good to have a healthy fear, but just also being confident at the same time. That’s just key right there. And just knowing the horse. Getting to know the horse, their little quirks, and spend the time at Dream Catchers did help me a lot as far as spending time with the different ones or just being on a schedule, but maybe it might be a different horse. I mean, there’s some that have been huge when you have to get them ready, and you’re just trying to be confident, of course, and get in there and then lift up their leg and clean out their hooves, and go to the back and just make all that your routine, even if they’re stubborn, you just hang in there and do it again. And you have to let them know that you’re not going to let something slide.

So I’m thankful to just be able to maybe participate in other centers or just go other places or just volunteer fairs or even at our recovery center because it is a lot of responsibility to own one. I mean, some people can go and lease one and go and ride one all the time. I personally don’t like to be out in the cold all the time and just all the responsibility year round. I’d really like to go more in the spring and fall. I mean, I’ve done it in the winter and I’ve done it in the summer when you’re sweating to death and you’re in the cold when you’re freezing. But I prefer the nicer, warmer climates or cooler climate when it’s not too bad. It will come and you’ll see what works and what doesn’t work. Every horse is different too and just getting to know the horse and the relationship between how you interact with the horse and maybe some of the little tricks too if they like a peppermint or a little something to nibble at every now and then. That helps to, especially when you’re going to retrieve them. Now, letting them back out is another thing. I would just like to say if somebody is interested in that, then if I can do it, I know you can do it because we already have that innocent recovery, the can-do attitude once you are on that road, that path. If there’s something that really sparks you and interests you, just know that don’t be afraid to try. Then you just might be amazed and surprised. Just because I didn’t grow up around them a whole life or have one myself, still doesn’t mean I might even do that down the road, but even there’s so many options out there that you can do, even working with veterans, if that’s a specialty that you like.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Thanks again for being here.