CHRIS NEWCOMB: Welcome to Peer Into Recovery, a podcast with the focus on the profession of peer support. For more information about how to subscribe, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org. Hey, everybody, this is Chris Newcomb, I’m your guest. Wait a minute, I’m kidding. I’m your host at another edition of Peer Into Recovery podcast.

We have a great guest today. Her name is Lauren Ball. She comes to us from the Rappahannock Area Community Service Board, where she works as a RPRS. Started out in 2018 as a CPRS, thought, nah, I’m an overachiever. I’m gonna become an RPRS, which she did successfully at 2019. She has been a peer support worker since 2010, and has been at the Rappahannock Area Community Service Board for the past five years, doing a great job there. And working as the Outreach Subsuse Peer recovery Specialist, which is a mouthful. Also working as a RAP facilitator since 2011, and a facilitator for NAMI connection groups in peer to peer. And also an autodidact, which is a wonderful word I never knew until I met Lauren. And we’re gonna teach you about autodidactism, a word I just made up very soon. So let’s get to it. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your story of origin, where you came from, and how you got to peer support services yourself. And we’ll continue from there.

LAUREN BALL: Yes, I came from my mom and dad. Ha ha ha ha ha.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You know what? Now everything comes together. It all makes sense. Yes.

LAUREN BALL: No, so I grew up in Southern California for half my life. And the other half, I would say I grew up in Northern Virginia, Vienna, to be specific. But I pretty much started noticing. I didn’t really fit in with society. I struggled in school, low self-esteem at a young age. Had suicidal ideations. And I was very, very grateful and thankful for the parents that I have today. During the dark days, they were definitely there for me. But I wasn’t the most easiest kid to deal with, I would say. They tried everything. But it wasn’t until I was completely diagnosed with bipolar disorder that it all made sense. The different, the rational thinking, the mood swings, the depression, suicidal thoughts, the mania. I remember as a kid, I don’t know about you, but I would want to organize my room. And so I would take it apart and then start going into a different area and then just kind of leave it. Like, I just had all these thoughts, like I could do so much, but I couldn’t do it. You know what I mean? But it wasn’t until my first suicide attempt, I was a freshman in high school in the ninth grade, and that was an eye-opener. But it was a scary experience. I had to go into the Dominion Hospital, and that place is not the most fun place to be for a kid. And then later in life, I kind of went through, you know, I got into recovery and realized, like, it started with my mental health, but the drugs and alcohol were my way to cope with everything. And then I just kind of probably, it’s probably about five years ago, Chris, I’ve been sober for 10 years, but about five years ago, I kind of was in my bed thinking to myself, I know I’m all over the place, it’s just how I am, but-

CHRIS NEWCOMB: That’s okay.

LAUREN BALL: I started thinking to myself, do people grieve suicide attempts, like, especially near-death ones, like you, I pretty much went through that experience. And there are people out there that actually there is, there was this website I found and it was a thing, like people actually, you can grieve surviving a suicide attempt. I didn’t know about that. I just had all that guilt and shame and angry at myself. And then I realized like five years ago, like, hey, it’s okay, this happened to me. I have this opportunity now to use my story to help others, so they either don’t have to go to that point, or they can begin the healing process themselves. Because suicide attempts are a part of my story, and I feel like there’s an even bigger stigma now because of it, because it’s hard to talk about, at least for me. Like, I didn’t want to talk about it. I didn’t want to tell people. I was ashamed. But now, it’s like, you know what happened? And it’s sad, absolutely sad. I’d rather, I mean, I’m so happy to be alive and grateful for that. But there’s a reason I’m here.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Wow. Yeah, that’s it’s really powerful stuff. And when you talked about the web polar, you mentioned sort of the depression and the mania. Would you say you you leaned to one side of the other or you kind of across the spectrum? Like, because there’s more depressive bipolar, and then there’s manic, and there’s kind of hypomanic in between. And of course, I’m not a doctor, and this is just because you had said, it sounds like there was a flux, like sometimes you’re depressed, sometimes you’re a manic.

LAUREN BALL: Manic and then depressed, but very dark. I would write poetry. It’s not necessarily like poetry that rhymes or anything. It’s just dark writings. And I think a lot of that kept me going in my days of like, adolescence because I have these boxes of just handwritten homes of like, how dark and how I really felt about wanting to die. And I don’t know, part of it was like, was this, did I really want to die or was this just a way to get my feelings out? And sometimes I do look back and I’m like, I’m so glad I can’t write like this anymore. That’s how I know I’m beginning to, like I’m healing. But I also didn’t know how to be happy or get out of that dark place. So I was kind of getting used to it. Like I, I wanted, a part of me wasn’t ready to let go of that depression. I didn’t know, I don’t know if that makes sense, but a part of me liked it. Not that I wish it on anyone, because it’s horrible. But a part of me really liked that dark place. And I didn’t know how to be like other than exist. I felt like all I was doing was existing in life.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Well, I mean, you go through, well, let’s back up and say, we all loved being teenagers. Dear listener, if you agree, know that I am speaking firmly tongue in cheek, because most of us, most of us who went through adolescence, we will be all of us at this point. You know, you had the zits, you had, you know, the person that you had the crush on who was, didn’t know you existed. And then you had the, you know, the awkward foibles of body changing and all that stuff. That in and of itself is enough to make someone wanna bang their head through a locker. Add mental health concerns on top of that. Add undiagnosed bipolar. Add suicidal ideation. And then you’ve got a recipe for a really miserable existence, I would imagine.

LAUREN BALL: Absolutely. Yeah. I was picked on in high school. I hated high school. But I was resilient. That’s the thing. Like I found out I was a lot more resilient than I thought I was. But at that time, I didn’t have any coping skills. I didn’t, I didn’t, I mean, I was in therapy all the time. But I would lie. I was a really great liar. I would tell the therapist, everything’s going well, life is good. I was on like this high. And then I’d get home and I’d be sneaking out or hanging out with people. I shouldn’t be hanging out lying. Just not a kind person. I mean, I was kind, but like, I was just, I didn’t know what to do in life. Like I didn’t have a plan to go to college. I didn’t have a plan. I didn’t even graduate high school. I got my GED because I was just struggling. And it was more of like, I just didn’t want to be here. I didn’t have a purpose.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And it’s hard if you don’t have a purpose because then you start questioning everything. Well, why am I going to have this piece of toast? I don’t really have a point to be here anyway. Who needs toast, right? I mean, that’s kind of simplistic, but it goes from there all the way down to, they call it like navel gazing, where you just sit and look at your belly button and go, why am I here? Where did I come from? You don’t drive yourself batty trying to figure that out. But when you don’t have a diagnosis of bipolar or other sorts of struggles, then those questions kind of are not in the forefront of someone’s life because they’re not dealing with the extra. And that extra makes life, can make life so difficult. What, when do you remember, or do you remember a point where you first started to realize that you felt different than others?

LAUREN BALL: Well, I think as a kindergartner or preschooler, I had the nickname Baby Jaws because I just like to bite kids. So maybe that was-

CHRIS NEWCOMB: No, did you really?

LAUREN BALL: Yes. Baby Jaws. Yes, because I just would bite. I was preschool, kindergarten. That’s what I’ve been told.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Wow. I thought so. I mean, when I first met you, I was like, I think she had a great white thing going on in kindergarten. And now it comes true.

LAUREN BALL: Yes. No, I did have that nickname as a kid. But I would think, I just didn’t feel like I fit in and I just, I couldn’t comprehend things. I had a hard time comprehending life as a kid. I mean, I had a great childhood. I had a loving family, but still I didn’t understand that necessarily. Like I was that kid that would just kind of had all these friends, apparently. I mean, I had all these friends, birthday parties, whatever, but I just couldn’t relate to anyone.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: How did that make you feel?

LAUREN BALL: Oh, low self-esteem. I even had a teacher that was like just rude to me in the second grade, you know, in school. And so I think that really made my confidence just go downhill. And I just never felt smart, good enough. And then later, that’s when the Autodidact came in.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Dun, dun, dun. Ladies and gentlemen, it is about that time. This is vocabulary, part of the, this is the vocabulary section of our program. Autodidact is spelled A-U-T-O-D-I-D-A-C-T. Autodidact, go ahead. Tell them about it, Lauren.

LAUREN BALL: It is someone that is self-taught. Yes. How cool is that?

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Someone who is self-taught. So if you are listening and you are a self-taughter, I just made that up too. If you teach yourself things, you are by nature, autodidactic. So tell us about how autodiactinism came into your life.

LAUREN BALL: Well, later in my adulthood, I just started wanting to learn things about psychology, the mind, the brain. If I want to learn something, I’m going to learn it and I’m going to teach myself how to do it.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Now, that’s resilience right there. That’s what I hear. Yes. I hear you could have called me baby Jaws, but I’m going to end up in this story as an autodidactic Jaws.

LAUREN BALL: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: A Jaws of Academia. I find out whatever it is. Google is your buddy.

LAUREN BALL: Google is my buddy, but not Wikipedia because you don’t always believe anything in Wikipedia.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: That’s right. Not everything you read is true online. Yes. But that’s great though, because if you talk about being struggling in kindergarten, and all kinds of kids struggle, but yours started out that way, and then there’s a pattern in second grade, you have Miss Meanie, who’s not nice to you, self-esteem takes a plunge, maybe some learning issues or whatever. But then you found those moments where, hey, when I take control to learn something, suddenly there’s an inner power that’s there.

LAUREN BALL: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And I’m guessing there’s probably, it sounds like you were probably a naturally inquisitive person?

LAUREN BALL: Sure, probably. I don’t always give myself the best credit for things like that.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: What, so three in the morning, three in the morning on some certain day, you’re feeling all didactic, what are you going to look up and try to find?

LAUREN BALL: Three in the morning, I’m sleeping, so maybe in my dreams, I’m manifesting something I’m going to create down the road.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah. Are you a creative person?

LAUREN BALL: Well, the thing is, I guess I used to be very creative, I used to write all those stories, those poems, I can’t do it anymore. I have switched, I am more left brain than right brain.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Interesting.

LAUREN BALL: Yes. It’s kind of frustrating. I have these creative thoughts, but then I like it. I have to logically think about it sometimes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Well, maybe it’s a, as a creative myself, maybe it’s a thing of a new season in your life of creativity, which isn’t driven so much by the pain that your other creativity was driven by, it sounds like.

LAUREN BALL: Yes. Could be.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: When you talk with folks there at the at at Rappahannock or another of your other peer work, how do you, what do you say when you talk to someone who says, man, you know, I’ve just got this, these thoughts about suicide and, and or I’ve made an attempt and I’m just, you know, I’m not sure what to do. What do you do? What do you say?

LAUREN BALL: It kind of depends on the person. Really, if they want me to listen, I’ll listen. But I try to think about my experience. And when somebody actually listened to me, that I, that I needed help, or I think about, well, first I ask like, you know, do they have the thoughts, the plans? I go down that just to make sure they’re safe. But really, I just share a little bit of, you know, the hope. Like if I had somebody say, you know, all the stuff you went through in high school that was horrible and all the things that you’ve experienced in your adulthood, I would think about that and how I, how I could help that person and give them a little bit of, hey, you know, I’m here to, you know, support you, hold your hand if you need it, give you a hug and help you begin the healing process. Because I’ve had a couple of individuals that have been down that road as well. And, and, and I kind of encourage them to share their story with somebody, to get it out into the universe, you know, because there’s only so much you can do on writing and, you know, in a journaling and all of that. It’s, it’s actually being able to share your darkest days with somebody. Part of your, I mean, not, not something that would trigger someone obviously, but you’re just, just sharing this. I look at it as like that energy with somebody else, so they can be able to just say, you know what? I am not alone and I do have someone I can call if I feel like I don’t want to be here anymore.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So you create a space for them to be honest. Yes.

LAUREN BALL: Because we think sometimes when, I mean, I know for myself, like I had like a plan with my family. Like if I’m in a really dark place, I have an action plan. Like I don’t go anywhere. I stay home. Like I think I mean, I live with my roommates who happen to be my parents, great roommates, the parentals, you know, shout out to them.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: My mom and dad, yeah. Yeah.

LAUREN BALL: But I didn’t have a relationship with them, a very honest, loving one on my part. And they did the best they could. And the best thing they could have done was just let me go. And I had to figure it out, even not being in their lives for a while.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Wow.

LAUREN BALL: So now, a part of me, I felt guilty like, wow, I have, I’m blessed to have great family. So I’m just going to stay with them forever. That’s how I’m going to keep that, you know, I’m going to, that’s my healing process. And they’re just like, oh, Lauren, you got to get out and be on your own. Well, I am on my own. I have a job, pay taxes, you know, pay, you know, help them out. But really, I think about some things I still need to work on is, is being able to forgive parts of my story.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah.

LAUREN BALL: That makes sense.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah. And that’s huge. Because, you know, I mean, I think forgiveness, forgiveness is important for all people everywhere, for all different kinds of reasons. But someone, you know, who has had a similar story, who’s struggled with the self-harm thing, you know, in self-harm, it’s like you are your worst enemy, but you don’t want to be your worst enemy.

LAUREN BALL: Right.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You’re not, you don’t, I don’t think you wake up on a Tuesday and go, yes, another opportunity to hurt myself. This is such a great day.

LAUREN BALL: Exactly.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You know, and I’m looking forward to more of the same tomorrow.

LAUREN BALL: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: This is so good. And matter of fact, I think I’m going to drag it out for a few years, just so I’m super miserable. Like people don’t do that.

LAUREN BALL: No, not at all. It just, sometimes it happens. You wake up that way.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah. And so, you know, our society is really good at performance-based worth. And if you do XYZ PDQ, well, then you have quite a bit of worth. If you don’t, well, you’re on the backside of the worth scale going down. And so, the work that you do as a RPRS is to, I would think, part of what you’re doing is helping people to reclaim worth.

LAUREN BALL: Yes. Self-worth, self-compassion, self-esteem. I provide these topics in my support groups. You know, just things that will show them or help them see that they are worth, you know, another day above ground. They’re worth having a purpose. It’s not just existing. There are people I talk to are worth it. We’re all worth it. Just sometimes we have to find what our purpose is. It’s not, to me, waking up and doing certain things every day isn’t really, you know, necessary. Like your career, careers change. They don’t have to be how they used to be back in the day. Like, you can create what you want in life. You can create, you know, your purpose. It doesn’t have to be a billionaire, you know, whatever. You get my point. You don’t have to have things like that. But just finding some sort of piece in something. And for me, even getting out of bed can be difficult. And showering, even on a good day, I’m like, oh, I have to get up. But then I remind myself, if I’m getting up eating, taking my medication, going for walking the dog, then that’s a good day. We don’t have to think about a good day is, you know, what a lot of people think a good day is, whatever that is. But for me, just getting up in the morning can be a good day. Especially when the sun’s out. When the sun is out, I’m happy. And it’s raining, so not quite happy at the moment. I’m happy to be here with you. I’m just not happy that it’s not sunny.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: It’s not sunny here either. I’m in Richmond and you are in…

LAUREN BALL: Fredericksburg.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Fredericksburg. So we are under the same depressive, precipitative day. But we’re doing some peer support right now about rain and the effects on people dealing with rain. And for any of our listeners who might be experiencing rain at this moment, it’s okay. You’re going to be fine.

LAUREN BALL: It’s okay. We’ll be fine.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Listen to the sound of my voice.

LAUREN BALL: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So, you know, when you get up out of bed, have a shower, get something nice to eat, that’s self-care, right?

LAUREN BALL: Yes. And I eat waffles for breakfast every day.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Well, waffles make everything better.

LAUREN BALL: It does.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Particularly since you live in the South, I’m going to assume there’s a decent amount of butter involved in the pancake. Yes. Butter makes everything better.

LAUREN BALL: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: I mean, I’m not a doctor or a nutritionist, but if anyone’s listening and is just struggling in life, butter makes everything better. Better butter. So someone comes to you and they have a plan. Of course, you do the expected protocol of, let’s talk about that and get you safe, et cetera. What do you say to someone who is just struggling with the ideation, doesn’t have a plan, but they have these intrusive thoughts about suicide? How do you, from your experience, Strength and Hope, what do you share?

LAUREN BALL: I just listen, just listen. Practice my listening skills, I guess. But yeah, I think about, I just wanted someone to hear me and no one did. I mean, the warning signs were all there. And I do think we have come a long way since back then, but not nearly enough on mental health and talking about suicide.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: You said something pretty powerful there. You said you listen because you needed someone to listen and no one did. What was it like when someone first listened to you?

LAUREN BALL: I felt, wow, this thinks will be okay. I felt like I was a person and the power of the suicidal thoughts just kind of went away at that moment.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Maybe the validation of someone listening to you sort of metaphorically slapped the suicide thoughts in the face and said, no, no, no, no, she has value.

LAUREN BALL: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: She has value. Whatever you’re telling her.

LAUREN BALL: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: I’m never writing that because I’m listening and then I’m affirming that she has value. Yes. And what a great gift to be able to give to other people. Yes. So what is your favorite part about being alive now?

LAUREN BALL: The little things, just seeing other people smile, being able to see my nephews grow up, having two friendships, just getting out of bed and feeling like, hey, there are better days ahead and in this moment, I could either have a good day or a bad day, but it’s not as bad as that day I took and attempted to take my life. Nothing is as bad as that day.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Yeah, so you have a benchmark that you never even get close to now because you’re so embracing of life and happiness and that stuff. And to someone who may be thinking, that’s great, Lauren, nice story, but my story is X, why should I stick around? What might you say?

LAUREN BALL: Not to give up. You have a purpose, you have value, your life does matter, but in this moment, you might feel that it doesn’t, but just don’t give up, hold on.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And sometimes that’s all people need to hear, is don’t give up.

LAUREN BALL: We don’t need to be fixed. We’re not broken. We’re just human beings and we are worthy.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: What does being worthy mean to you?

LAUREN BALL: I am a person, I am someone who is worth time. I believe in God, so he wants me here.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So you have a divine, in your life, you believe you have a divine plan.

LAUREN BALL: Yes.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: That there’s a reason that you’re here. Yes. And at this moment, you would say is peer support and helping folks who struggle with this particular life struggle. And so there are hotlines people can call, right?

LAUREN BALL: Yes. There is Mental Health America’s peer warm line, and that is nine to nine Monday through Friday, and five to nine Saturday, Sunday, and holidays. And that number is 1-866-400-6428.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And then isn’t there a new national number?

LAUREN BALL: Yes. And that is 988.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And is that 247-365? Yes.

LAUREN BALL: And they have crisis counselors. What else support that you need? I have a collection of handouts all over my desk.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: All over your desk. Any other numbers or emails or things for people who are struggling with suicidal ideation?

LAUREN BALL: That’s all I have in here. But I do know that the Rappahannock Area Community Service Board has virtual peer drop-in groups. Yes. I run the Mondays, which is called Remodeled recovery. Mondays 12 to 1.30 on Zoom. Same with Serenity Sisters. That is Tuesday, 1230 to 1.30. My wonderful co-worker, he runs Rockin recovery. That is Thursdays 3 to 4, and that’s a men’s group. And Hunger for Hope is Fridays 3.30 to 4.30, and that’s on Zoom. And there’s a code for that.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: And they just go to your…

LAUREN BALL: The Rappahannock Area Community Service Board website.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: Website. Rappahannock Area Community Service Board website. And you can find those things. And that’s great. And you don’t have to be in the Rappahannock Area to be a part of those meetings.

LAUREN BALL: You don’t even have to have… You don’t even have to have servicemen. You just attend and drop in. Great topics on healing and yeah.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So if I’m down here in Richmond and decided to jump on one, I can.

LAUREN BALL: Yes, absolutely. And they’re free. Yes, absolutely free.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: So Lauren, thank you so much for being a part of our program today.

LAUREN BALL: Thank you for having me.

CHRIS NEWCOMB: I think your story is great and appreciate your honesty and your transparency. And for all those who are listening, if you are struggling with suicide ideation or have a plan, call somebody 988, call a friend, call your parent, call anybody. You are worth it. You have value. I’m not just saying that. That’s the truth. If I saw you sitting in front of me, I would tell you that because every human being has worth and value. And your value and your worth is based on the fact that you exist, not what you do, not who you are or where you come from, simply because you exist. I want to thank our listeners for listening to the Peer Into recovery podcast, which is brought to you by the Virginia Peer Specialist Network and Mental Health America of Virginia. And if you like our show and would like to subscribe to the podcast, please visit our website at www.vprsn.org. In the meantime, please take care of yourselves, everyone. We’ll see you soon.